Palestinians, as well as some left-wing Jews, are being suspended from studies, fired from jobs, or arrested at night — all because of social media posts.
Remember folks. Support Israel because they’re “the only Democracy in the Middle East™”.
Yeah don’t worry, they’re the good guys. The good guys are always the ones arresting and murdering people who critique them. North Korea, China, Russia, the good guys. Support Israel. There is no gun to my head. Support Israel.
*for now…
So morally upright they have to arrest anyone who accuses them of war crimes. Nope nothing to see here.
Fucking hell.
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Did Netanyahu get a copy of Mein Kampf, cross out every instance of ‘Jew’ and change it to ‘Palestinian’ and then use it as a guidebook or something?
He is a Machiavellian war criminal that uses wars for personal gain. A corrupt hate mongerer.
He belongs in prison.
He belongs in prison.
Literally wasn’t he being charged with a corruption lawsuit before this mess started?
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No, he is perfectly fine to discriminate against the self hating Jews /s
I mean… Hitler was fine with discriminating against Christian Germans who weren’t members of the party. That was why he had secret police.
No Christian in Nazi Germany was discriminated for being Christian. Hitler referred to himself as Christian, had a catholic upbringing and was never excommunicated, not even retroactively to this day. The two big Christian denominations received very favorable laws (see Reichskonkordat) which they are very fond of to this day. The antisemitism in Nazi Germany was an aggravation of centuries old Christian antisemitism which could be found all over Europe. All claims that any Christian was discriminated by the Nazis for being Christian is patently absurd. It was a deeply Christian movement with some occult/pagan elements (see Himmler & Co).
never excommunicated, not even retroactively
You can’t be excommunicated retroactively.
Excommunication is meant to socially pressure someone into repentance, which is obviously pointless after death.
Well, they also didn’t during his lifetime, did they? And that while being aware of the Holocaust: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-find-evidence-pope-pius-xii-ignored-reports-holocaust-180974795/
By the time he rose to power, Hitler was no longer a practicing Catholic. In fact he publicly aligned himself with “Deutsche Christen”, a Nazi version of Protestantism. So again, excommunication would have been pointless.
And what did the Catholic church at least used to do with people denouncing their faith?
They literally targeted Roman Catholics because the feared they wouldn’t be loyal to the state.
That’s simply not true. They didn’t target Catholics, they targeted parts of the Catholic church (the institution) for political opposition. That’s a very different thing.
No it isn’t. When you go after a Church to limit its voice in society you are attacking the faithful. Targeting the church IS going after Catholics.
Maybe from a revisionist perspective. ~20% of NSDAP members were Catholic. Keep in mind that the NSDAP was founded in deeply Catholic Bavaria. ~400 Catholic priests from Germany ended up in concentration camps, out of 20.000. It was no attack on the Catholic church, but on individuals within the church who publicly opposed the Nazis. That’s political persecution, not religious persecution. Any claim to the contrary is historical revisionism.
95% of the German population was either Catholic or Protestant. And so was the NSDAP and their voter base. It tilted more to Protestants, but Catholics were not excluded. The Reichskonkordat benefitted the Protestant and Catholic churches equally.
This is more of a reply to everybody and not just your comment specifically. Where do you people think the antisemitism in 1930s Germany came from? Hitler and the NSDAP came around and turned “everybody” into anti-Semites? No. The Christian antisemitism was already there and the NSDAP tapped into it. Especially, but not limited to, from the Protestant side: Martin Luther was a raging anti-Semite. Pogroms had been taking place all over Europe for hundreds of years before the NSDAP arrived. The NSDAP “only” brought it to the next level. The entire anti-Semite NSDAP movement was deeply rooted in Christianity. If any Christian individual was persecuted by the Nazi regime it was for political opposition, not for their Christianity. If a fringe Christian sect was persecuted by the Nazis, they were persecuted by other flavors of Christianity! That the Nazis (who were by and large Christians) persecuted Christians for being Christians is complete revisionist nonsense!
Remember the past or you are condemned to repeat it!
Jehovah’s witnesses were actually some of the first victims of the Holocaust. Alongside the mentally and physically handicapped.
And are to this day not even considered a religious group, but a sect monitored by the intelligence service (Verfassungsschutz) in Germany. In Germany in the 1930s, ~95% of the population were either Catholic or Protestant; other Christian denominations only accounted for .5% of the population. Don’t nitpick in the .5% when talking about Christianity in Nazi Germany. Red herring much …
how long before Israel starts ordering cyanide based pesticides in bulk?
Netanyahoo is a fascist shit. The only thing he deserves is to be overthrown.
Netanyahoo
The only acceptable misspelling.
Netanaskjeeves.
Netangoogle.
Netanaltavista.
Netanbing.
Netanlycos.
Netanexcite.
Netandogpile.
Netanhotbot.
Netanmsn.
Netanduckduckgo.
B-b-b-but everyone was assuring me that Israel is a beacon of democracy in a sea of oppression!
Totally normal behaviour from a totally not authoritarian or far-right extremist apartheid government.
This article is important highlighting the repressive actions being done in Israel right now.
I want to highlight two things from the article:
cases of students who published words of praise for terrorism
people being summoned to police investigations or questioning simply for “liking” posts on social media — including an Arab teacher working in Tiberias who was suspended because she liked a post shared by the Instagram page Eye on Palestine
I wish the article would put some more emphasis in distinguishing legitimate criticism of Israel’s actions on the one hand (which should be considerd protected speech), and incitement to violence and terrorism on the other (which should rightfully be persecuted and banned)
Israel is at war right now, and this causes Israeli instituations to drastically overextend their definition of what constitutes “incitement to violence” and “supporting terrorism”.
We must be able understand the nuances and hold Israel accountable for quashing legitimate speech, while still understanding their duty to prevent incitement to violence, which inevitably leads to real violence.
These same criticisms and nuances should also be directed at Palestinian institutions.
Differntiate legitimate speech from incitement to violence
Toldry, I have spent the past week doing serious research into the Israel/Palestine conflict. I have looked at pro Palestine arguments as well as pro Israel arguments along with third party sources and cross referenced timelines of events and quotes from key players from the 1800s til now. I can safely say both sides are terrible and there’s a lot more than meets the eye going on right now. Thank you for providing nuance and level headedness in a time when people are increasingly feeling pressured to pick a side. Remember people, you can condemn both hamas and Israel. Both have done dirty things to each other from the beginning and both have engaged in deception so often that I feel there is truly no good guy in this situation.
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Thank you for perfectly exemplifying what “no nuance” looks like
I dont care what you think.
Free Palestine!
Nobody cares about free Palestine except for tankies. It was never in Hamas’ program to begin with. If you wanna support Hamas you better yell “kill all Jews”.
go fuck yourself.
Ignorance is a bliss I guess. Free Tibet, free Xinjiang, free Hong Kong, free Taiwan and slava Ukraini! Kill all commies and their allies, the fucking scourge of the earth, disgusting braindead psychopathic cannibals.
Personally I don’t find condemning calls for violence to be mutually exclusive from wanting Palestine free, but you do you I suppose.
Human Rights Watch has a good report about free speech, protest, and journalism under Israeli military orders: Born Without Civil Rights
It also mentions where there is overlap between civil rights abuses from Israel and from the Palestinian Authority, although there is a separate report on the PA: Two Authorities, One Way, Zero Dissent
I also recommend reading the three case studies under section VI. The first one is a doozy, and parts of it are mentioned in the summary below. The third one, a guy gets kicked around by Israel and then also the PA.
Relevant highlights from the summary:
The regulations empower authorities, among other things, to declare as an “unlawful association” groups that advocate for “bringing into hatred or contempt, or the exciting of disaffection against” authorities, and criminalize membership in or possession of material belonging to or affiliated, even indirectly, with these groups.
Military Order 101, which criminalizes participation in a gathering of more than ten people without a permit on an issue “that could be construed as political,” punishable by a sentence of up to ten years. It further prohibits publishing material “having a political significance” or displaying “flags or political symbols” without army approval.
Military Order 1651, which replaced 20 prior orders and imposes a 10-year sentence on anyone who “attempts, orally or otherwise, to influence public opinion in the Area [the West Bank] in a manner which may harm public peace or public order” or “publishes words of praise, sympathy or support for a hostile organization, its actions or objectives,” which it defines as “incitement.” It further outlines vaguely worded “offenses against authorities” whose penalties include potential life imprisonment for an “act or omission which entails harm, damage, disturbance to the security of the Area or the security of the IDF” or entering an area in close “proximity” to property belonging to the army or state.
The Israeli army also regularly cites the broad definition of incitement in its military laws, defined to include “praise, sympathy or support for a hostile organization” and “attempts, orally or otherwise, to influence public opinion in the Area in a manner which may harm public peace or public order,” to criminalize speech merely opposing its occupation.
Military prosecutors, for example, in early 2018 claimed in an indictment against activist Nariman Tamimi that she “attempted to influence public opinion in the Area in a manner that may harm public order and safety” and “called for violence” over a livestream she posted to her Facebook account of a confrontation between her then-16-year-old daughter Ahed and Israeli soldiers in her front yard in December 2017. Her indictment notes a series of charges under Military Order 1651 based primarily on the livestream, including “incitement,” noting that the video was “viewed by thousands of users, shared by dozens of users, received dozens of responses and many dozens of likes.” Human Rights Watch reviewed the video and case file, and nowhere in the video or case file does Nariman call for violence. Nariman told Human Rights Watch that she pled guilty to incitement and two other charges—"aiding assault of a soldier” and “interference with a soldier”— to avoid a longer sentence if convicted by a military justice system that, as human rights organizations have shown, fail to give Palestinians fair trials. Based on the plea deal, Nariman served eight months in jail.
Is anyone suggesting Israel should ignore outright calls for violence against Israel by people in Israel? Because as far as I can tell that’s not a thing that’s happening, so I’m not sure why you’re making such a big deal of saying it shouldn’t be tolerated.
It is a thing that’s happening.
I don’t have an Englrsh source, but here is an article about some of students in Haifa university that expressed support and cheered on the October 7th attack. They were suspended from the university.
Keep in mind they did this even before the Israeli army responded in any way and did anything in Gaza.
Cheering on the terrorist attach in October 7th that killed thousands of innocents is a call for violence against Israel.
That article isn’t very specific about how exactly they “expressed support” so it’s really hard to say if they were expressing a gross political view or actively inciting violence. I certainly don’t think saying “I support Hamas” should be illegal any more illegal than saying “I support Russia” or even “I support Israel”, but it crosses a line if they tell people to commit acts of terrorism or give material support to Hamas.
I suspect they were removed based on a violation of a student code of conduct, which I think is the right way to deal with high-profile assholes at universities, just as employment agreements are an appropriate way for employers to deal with conduct that’s obnoxious but not illegal.
At any rate, I’m certain Israel already has laws against incitement to violence that were written at a time when people were a bit more level headed. I can’t see an attempt to further criminalize speech as anything but an attempt to stifle political speech that specifically does not incite violence.
First of all, I’m an Israeli, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, and I’ll try to be as unbiased as I can. Hamas, as opposed to Russia (I don’t say Israel because a lot will disagree), is an internationaly recognized terrorist group, which was elected* by the people of Gaza after Israel pulled all civilians and military from the Gaza strip, Hamas has made it very clear that their sole mission was to eradicate all the jews (not Israelis or zionists) from Palestine (and I’m not sure about that - also the world). So an Israeli supporting Hamas would be very problematic, Imagine an american supporting Al qaeda right after 9/11. And I just want to emphasize, supporting Hamas is not necessarily supporting Palestine and vice versa, myself I think that any hamas operative deserve to die, but I really hope and dream for the day that the Palestinians would be our peaceful neighbours. *elected technically, as they drove fatah, their main competitor and more moderate towards israel.
I think we may just have a different idea of what counts as incitement. I’m an American and I can tell you that openly expressing support for Al Qaeda would have made you very, very unpopular here, but it would not be illegal. There are cases where I think the American version of free speech goes too far (in that it protects things like dangerous misinformation and foreign propaganda), but I don’t think this is one of those cases. The social consequences of supporting terrorists are already harsh enough to keep those views mostly suppressed. People can, of course, find like-minded people and express their opinions in private without fear, but even then, if the conversation goes beyond expressing opinions and moves on to making plans to commit a crime, that’s considered a conspiracy, which is illegal. We have counter-terrorism units that actively try to infiltrate extremist groups specifically so they can shut down conspiracies.
I don’t think Israel (or any country) should allow speech that directly puts anyone in danger, but given the right-wing nature of Israel’s government and the tendency of right-wing governments in general to suppress speech they disapprove of, I strongly suspect that any new law will inevitably be used to suppress legitimate criticism of the government.
I try to keep my ideas and opinions out of this conversation to keep it unbiased, but the reality I see, living in Israel my whole life is that support for a terrorist organization is directly related to terrorist activity, for example we’ve seen it in 95 when support for a radical right wing Jewish terrorist group quickly ended in the assassination of the prime minister Itzhak Rabin, and Hezbolla supporters are easily recruited by Hezbolla to report where Hezbolla missile hits so Hezbolla can correct they’re aiming. As much as I understand,just supporting hamas’ actions, as vile and horrible as it is is free speech, but the road from there to actively take action in aiding Hamas is extremely short.
I’m prepared to accept that things are different in Israel for a reason. Especially because my opinion on that topic makes even less difference than my opinions on American politics.
Tell me your
warslaughter is manufactured without telling me it’s manufactured.Not surprising, they’ve gotten their supporters here in the US to crack down on it too.
Have they some sort of military branch or designated group to handle people expressing opinions contrary to their leader?
See also: Japanese internment camps and the UK’s D-notices during WW2, the Patriot Act and DHS after 9/11.
