Remember kids: Iran is the bad Middle East autocracy and Saudi Arabia is the good Middle East autocracy.
US foreign policy has always been and will always be interest based rather than value based, but they will use moral arguments and threat inflation to drum up support for their misadventures abroad.
Anyway this just means that a straight B-line for no longer being fossil fuel dependent is just more important.
If we can then combine that by sourcing the oil from countries that do not perform stonings and public executions in stadiums, of call it a win.
Keep in mind that not 50 years ago, we had an oil crisis that showed how incredibly depended we where, and the EU learned the hard way what energy dependence on Russia meant.
Solar, Wind and a hydro/Geothermal/nuclear baseload with at least 60 months of stored fission material would be my hope.
The thing that always amuses me about this is that Iran was a burgeoning liberal democracy until the CIA and MI6 toppled it in 1953, installing a previously overthrown autocrat (overthrown by said forces of democracy), who ruled until 1979, when he was overthrown by religious hard liners, who really only had mass support because the autocrat was too authoritarian.
And the reason the U.S. and Britain overthrew their democracy?
They nationalized their oil industry to give profits back to their people, which entailed taking over refineries and wells ‘owned’ by British Petroleum.
The U.S. created their own boogeyman in the area because they wanted to give a corporation near-free access to Iran’s oil. Which in turn lead to the oil crisis and instability in the region.
The U.S. has really got to stop trying to put out fires while covered in crude oil.
“Amusing” and yeah the geopolitics of the 50’s and 60’s. The gift that keeps on giving. Especially the interventions done in name of big corporations are wonderful examples of nightmares that just don’t end.
Which one is the way worse one? Because I can’t really think of a way in which one is way worse than the other. I wouldn’t ever want to live in either place if I were a woman or a queer person.
I think Iran is worse personally across the board. But I intentionally left that out of my comment as it does not really matter. And for minorities and women both are … unsafe.
Nah Squid, as I said I’m not looking for this discussion. I’m definitely not going into an who can out evil who debate as there is so much out there. I’m also not looking to defend any of these countries either. As I said, bad and worse.
Absolutely, and I’m plenty entitled to my opinion.
In my original post I purposefully did not specify my opinion on which is worse as I fully understand that choosing one as more evil over the other is subjective and depends on your perspective and priorities.
Squid asked a question, fully expecting my answer to be as it was, in order to perform a gotcha. And I’m not interested in having a slapfight on which country is more evil… as the list of horribleness for each of the countries is so sickeningly long.
But in the end both countries are hellholes, tthat I would not wish my worst enemy to live in.
Your original post literally contains “one is bad and the other is way worse”. You started out from a non-neutral position. Then people called you out, and you got defensive saying that you aren’t going to go into “who’s worse”. Which again, you already did. There is no slapfight without your subjective opinion being unbalanced in the first place.
100% agree, no longer being oil dependent would make the middle east a saver place (as well as having many other advantages).
But even the green revolution needs cheap labor, recourses, and rare-earth metals. Countries that do not want to play game and want to nationalize key industries for instance, will be coerced financially or militarily by greater powers (be it the West, China, or Russia).
So the idea of one country being worse than the other is not really relevant and moreover a known strategy for getting war support. I am happy that I don’t live in Iran or Saudi Arabia, but escalating conflict with either of them will not improve anybody’s life. Look at Syria or Libya.
iran is pretty regressive (at least the government and the governing bodies) but i do love how the us always says iran is so evil and yet they gave them a whole bunch of weapons in exchange for money that the us could use to fund terrorists in central america in the 80s.
Remember kids: Iran is the bad Middle East autocracy and Saudi Arabia is the good Middle East autocracy.
US foreign policy has always been and will always be interest based rather than value based, but they will use moral arguments and threat inflation to drum up support for their misadventures abroad.
Or… one is bad and the other one is way worse.
Anyway this just means that a straight B-line for no longer being fossil fuel dependent is just more important.
If we can then combine that by sourcing the oil from countries that do not perform stonings and public executions in stadiums, of call it a win.
Keep in mind that not 50 years ago, we had an oil crisis that showed how incredibly depended we where, and the EU learned the hard way what energy dependence on Russia meant.
Solar, Wind and a hydro/Geothermal/nuclear baseload with at least 60 months of stored fission material would be my hope.
The thing that always amuses me about this is that Iran was a burgeoning liberal democracy until the CIA and MI6 toppled it in 1953, installing a previously overthrown autocrat (overthrown by said forces of democracy), who ruled until 1979, when he was overthrown by religious hard liners, who really only had mass support because the autocrat was too authoritarian.
And the reason the U.S. and Britain overthrew their democracy? They nationalized their oil industry to give profits back to their people, which entailed taking over refineries and wells ‘owned’ by British Petroleum.
The U.S. created their own boogeyman in the area because they wanted to give a corporation near-free access to Iran’s oil. Which in turn lead to the oil crisis and instability in the region.
The U.S. has really got to stop trying to put out fires while covered in crude oil.
“Amusing” and yeah the geopolitics of the 50’s and 60’s. The gift that keeps on giving. Especially the interventions done in name of big corporations are wonderful examples of nightmares that just don’t end.
Which one is the way worse one? Because I can’t really think of a way in which one is way worse than the other. I wouldn’t ever want to live in either place if I were a woman or a queer person.
I think Iran is worse personally across the board. But I intentionally left that out of my comment as it does not really matter. And for minorities and women both are … unsafe.
Well then you would be wrong.
Iran never let anything like this happen- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Mecca_girls'_school_fire
So unless you think a country that lets girls burn to death rather than go out in the street uncovered is superior to a country that doesn’t…
But please do tell me the ways that Iran does things in terms of human rights that significantly differ from the ways that Saudi Arabia does things.
Nah Squid, as I said I’m not looking for this discussion. I’m definitely not going into an who can out evil who debate as there is so much out there. I’m also not looking to defend any of these countries either. As I said, bad and worse.
You aren’t looking to defend countries yet you call one “bad” and the other “worse”.
Absolutely, and I’m plenty entitled to my opinion.
In my original post I purposefully did not specify my opinion on which is worse as I fully understand that choosing one as more evil over the other is subjective and depends on your perspective and priorities.
Squid asked a question, fully expecting my answer to be as it was, in order to perform a gotcha. And I’m not interested in having a slapfight on which country is more evil… as the list of horribleness for each of the countries is so sickeningly long.
But in the end both countries are hellholes, tthat I would not wish my worst enemy to live in.
Edit: I’m just sad that this leads to downvotes.
Your original post literally contains “one is bad and the other is way worse”. You started out from a non-neutral position. Then people called you out, and you got defensive saying that you aren’t going to go into “who’s worse”. Which again, you already did. There is no slapfight without your subjective opinion being unbalanced in the first place.
100% agree, no longer being oil dependent would make the middle east a saver place (as well as having many other advantages).
But even the green revolution needs cheap labor, recourses, and rare-earth metals. Countries that do not want to play game and want to nationalize key industries for instance, will be coerced financially or militarily by greater powers (be it the West, China, or Russia).
So the idea of one country being worse than the other is not really relevant and moreover a known strategy for getting war support. I am happy that I don’t live in Iran or Saudi Arabia, but escalating conflict with either of them will not improve anybody’s life. Look at Syria or Libya.
iran is pretty regressive (at least the government and the governing bodies) but i do love how the us always says iran is so evil and yet they gave them a whole bunch of weapons in exchange for money that the us could use to fund terrorists in central america in the 80s.