Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has warned that it was “inevitable” that “war” would come to Russia after authorities there were forced to temporarily close a busy Moscow airport following an overnight drone attack on the capital.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has warned that it was “inevitable” that “war” would come to Russia after authorities there were forced to temporarily close a busy Moscow airport following an overnight drone attack on the capital.
My response to this argument is that you’re saying we can laugh and cheer as teenagers are pushed into the exploding woodchipper, but the instant someone wearing a suit gets dirt on them everyone needs to stop and reflect on their actions.
I don’t see a danger of Ukraine reaching the level of Russia when it comes to war crimes, we haven’t seen anything close to an izium on the Ukrainian side, and even if we had, it’s a defensive war.
If Ukraine wants to drone strike red square, more power to them, point me at their gofundme.
You are arguing a complete strawman, though, as I am not saying any of that.
My argument is that I think attacks on civilians are generally wrong. This is also why war crimes are defined based on what they are, not the context or the motivation behind them. Russian war crimes are appaling, but this - in my opinion - does not justify attacks on Russian civilians. Nobody also talked about same level or any other comparison, only you. I am not even putting on the same level Izyum and a glass office in Moscow, I am discussing the general principle.
The problem is that war propaganda pushes a principle that I simply don’t agree with, which is collective responsibility, from which derives the fact that killing a Russian civilian is not wrong or not as wrong as killing an Ukrainian civilian, because if you hold a Russian passport, automatically you are guilty of genocide.
I don’t understand what is hard or complex or debatable about saying that killing civilians is wrong.
Either Russian conscripts are all evil monsters who willingly want to invade another country, in which case we should be able to do whatever we like to them, or they’re teenagers being forced into a fight against their will (they are conscripts under pain of imprisonment).
I’m willing to give the benefit of nuance to the mobiks, they might be doing horrible things, but it’s not like they chose to take a road trip to Bakhmut, but then I think the rich Russians working in cities to keep the machine running deserve the same nuance.
You can place the limit of personal freedom where you subjectively think it is. Are you free to refuse to participate in a war? In my opinion, generally yes, even if the price to pay is high (jail, retaliation, death). For someone the price to pay might be an argument to say that you are not free, and I think both positions are potentially valid, even though I think nobody can ultimately force you to actually squeeze the trigger.
This said, conscripts have absolutely nothing to do with this discussions, as I consider them part of the military, not civilians (which is what my whole comment was about).
Also, “do what we want with them” is also incorrect, as you can’t do certain things even to enemy soldier, if you subscribe to principles stated in the Geneva convention. And to prevent any objections, I am well aware that Russian have done some unspeakable war crimes even in relation to this (such as the beheadings etc.).
Now, if you start extending the responsibility until those who “keep the machine going” you can reach basically any person on the planet, considering the way global economies are connected. I don’t think this makes civilians a fair target though.
What are you on about? No one’s advocating for that.
I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.
Then you are an idiot. The clue is in the name “War Crimes”, they are illegal actions no one should be taking. Neither side should be engaging in war crimes, now, we can’t do anything about Russia because it’s Russia, but we can encourage Ukraine not to do it and we should encourage Ukraine not to do it.
But they didn’t hit that did they, they hit random office buildings. Target in civilians was the tactic in world War 2, and it didn’t work. It just galvanises a population against you.