spujb suggested that drag should try some simpler memes than the Cunk one from yesterday, until the people on 196 understand the “trans trolls” issue well enough to appreciate memes with more irony and layers in them. It’s a good point, most people don’t really think about transphobes accusing trans people of being trolls very often. Drag would like everyone to understand the issue well enough that when trans people are accused of trolling, most people are ready to think critically about the accusation. Transphobes like to claim legitimacy by saying their BS is in line with the best interests of trans people. Like TERFs crying about trans kids going through “invasive surgeries”. It’s able to fool a lot of people who aren’t familiar with the specific issue.
was good advice apparently because, me being ‘one of the noobs not up to date on the latest issue’ i wasn’t really able to follow yesterday’s meme because it was built on too many layers i hadn’t been present for. This one tho i just think about and ‘yeah makes sense’.
My problem with the cunk meme is that drag goes into one of the most trans-inclusive places on the internet (lemmy.blahai.zone) and just straight up shits on all Lemmy users as being transphobic (that’s what it sounds to me).
That makes no sense in that context.
Also I (as many others) have not had an interaction with a “person pretending to be a civilized trans person”. And drag has not posted a link proving they exist.
To me the “pretending to be a civilized trans person” part this sounds completely bonkers and I can’t understand how that “trolling” would work.
But yes, the Lisa Simpson meme makes sense in itself but is in dire need of an example more than an explanation.
The example is self-referential, drag is called a troll and told drag is pretending to be trans a lot, even though drag is pretty chill when you get to know drag.
Blahaj is trans inclusive, but Lemmy isn’t. Even in this thread, the Blahaj mods have had to remove comments by people from other instances. Drag thought 196’s users could agree that Lemmy at large is a lot less welcoming than Blahaj.
And drag doesn’t think there are any trolls who pretend to be respectful trans people. But there are people who think drag is a troll pretending to be a respectful trans people. They think being trans is an effective troll because they hate trans people. As you say, it doesn’t make much sense, except from a transphobic point of view.
Today drag will post another meme that drag hopes will explain more.
I don’t really agree about the idea of Lemmy as a whole being any less inclusive than any other corner of the internet. If anything, I would say it is slightly more inclusive (though some of it definitely is not genuine, like the entire instance that will go full white knight mode).
The example, and what went on in the comments here is my first experience with this particular brand of transphobia. I’ve honestly had to do almost zero moderation in the trans focused community I made.
The amount of blatant hate that has been thrown my way (threatening and insulting DMs etc) has been about proportional to the user base here.
I’m sorry that drag has been the target of this kind of garbage, and thanks for making me aware of it. I hope drag keeps up the fight and doesn’t let people get drag down.
why do you refer to yourself in the third person? and why did you link to that comment thread at almost the end? i had to hit “show context” like 15 times to have any idea what the fuck was happening.
neither of these things are helping with people’s confusion. you are aggressively insisting that everyone understands and agrees with your viewpoint on a niche side of a niche community. you can’t expect people to understand the context without being deeeeep in that community. this is probably one of the most trans friendly spaces on the Internet. calling the space generally transphobic is a little too victim complexy.
anything that’s more of a safe space than this is going to be a complete and total echo chamber with no opposing or dissenting views on anything whatsoever. if you want to go somewhere where people can’t disagree with you, it sounds like your own discord server where you can ban people for that is the only option.
i and me aren’t gendered pronouns. you’re just using the third person…
pronoun replacements like that are for he/him/her/herself/whatever. unless you’re implying that you aren’t you somehow? replacing first person pronouns like that just means you’re using the third person all the time.
why do you feel the need to do that? what is wrong with i and me? is "you’ out of bounds too?
That’s a whole lot of reply for having not even read what drag said. “person independent pronoun”. It’s a pronoun that functions indepent of first/second/third person case.
I reckon respecting pronouns means respecting pronouns, not just the ones you approve of. You wouldn’t try and tell somebody that their name or spelling thereof is wrong just because you don’t like it would ya?
I’m sorry i don’t know what person independent pronouns are. i am not deep in the trans community. I’m just trying to understand. being aggressive like this about genuinely complicated and nuanced things that 90% of the population doesn’t understand is a big part as what pushes people away from understanding.
why do they exist though? is it like a split personality thing? what does it mean to not identify with first person pronouns? just towing the line and doing what I’m told isn’t my style. i need to understand what I’m saying. it’s like the difference between using a math formula and understanding how it works. i don’t like using words that I don’t understand.
I’ll try, i don’t want to be disrespectful and I’m sorry if my tone has been a bit heavy.
can drag try to help me understand why drag feels that way? why don’t first person pronouns work for drag.
and man, it’s hard to avoid words that one uses through habit without thinking. I’ve had to edit this like five times to catch all of the “you’s”. it’s just not a layer of consciousness in my brain. i have to kind of break my brain to stop saying “you”. it feels like having to avoid saying “the”
First person pronouns work just fine for drag. Drag is a first person pronoun, and also a second and third person pronoun. That’s what person-independent means.
Drag likes it because it acknowledges drag’s identity as a dragon rider. Drag originally wanted to go with xi/drag person independent pronouns, which inflected differently depending on subject or object construction. But people confused drag for the Chinese president. So drag dropped the xi pronouns. A lot of people have complained they don’t like the drag pronouns, but most of them are reacting better than the first idea. Xi was a more traditional sounding subject form pronoun and people liked it even less.
that’s a lot of effort to ask of someone just because you like it. it feels like khaleesi requiring people to use her full title all the time. you and i are just a standard part of language that don’t diminish what one is. i am no less my name and my identity because i use i and me. those words just exist to make speaking easier and less clunky. and as i mentioned before, they’re such standard and thoughtless parts of language that it genuinely takes a lot of effort to avoid them for just one person. so I’ll use drag instead of any gendered pronouns, but you is just part of the English language that you don’t have a good reason for me to put that effort into avoiding.
so I’ll take you up on your former offer of not using drag instead of you. I won’t misgender you and call you something you’re not, but you’re still you. that’s not inaccurate. I’m not misidentifying you by saying that. I’m just not calling you you’re full title every time i speak. to me this is the same as not calling someone sir just because they think they deserve special treatment.
spujb suggested that drag should try some simpler memes than the Cunk one from yesterday, until the people on 196 understand the “trans trolls” issue well enough to appreciate memes with more irony and layers in them. It’s a good point, most people don’t really think about transphobes accusing trans people of being trolls very often. Drag would like everyone to understand the issue well enough that when trans people are accused of trolling, most people are ready to think critically about the accusation. Transphobes like to claim legitimacy by saying their BS is in line with the best interests of trans people. Like TERFs crying about trans kids going through “invasive surgeries”. It’s able to fool a lot of people who aren’t familiar with the specific issue.
was good advice apparently because, me being ‘one of the noobs not up to date on the latest issue’ i wasn’t really able to follow yesterday’s meme because it was built on too many layers i hadn’t been present for. This one tho i just think about and ‘yeah makes sense’.
Thank you for the affirmation. Drag is going to keep posting these in increasing complexity until you understand the Cunk meme
My problem with the cunk meme is that drag goes into one of the most trans-inclusive places on the internet (lemmy.blahai.zone) and just straight up shits on all Lemmy users as being transphobic (that’s what it sounds to me).
That makes no sense in that context.
Also I (as many others) have not had an interaction with a “person pretending to be a civilized trans person”. And drag has not posted a link proving they exist.
To me the “pretending to be a civilized trans person” part this sounds completely bonkers and I can’t understand how that “trolling” would work.
But yes, the Lisa Simpson meme makes sense in itself but is in dire need of an example more than an explanation.
The example is self-referential, drag is called a troll and told drag is pretending to be trans a lot, even though drag is pretty chill when you get to know drag.
Blahaj is trans inclusive, but Lemmy isn’t. Even in this thread, the Blahaj mods have had to remove comments by people from other instances. Drag thought 196’s users could agree that Lemmy at large is a lot less welcoming than Blahaj.
And drag doesn’t think there are any trolls who pretend to be respectful trans people. But there are people who think drag is a troll pretending to be a respectful trans people. They think being trans is an effective troll because they hate trans people. As you say, it doesn’t make much sense, except from a transphobic point of view.
Today drag will post another meme that drag hopes will explain more.
I don’t really agree about the idea of Lemmy as a whole being any less inclusive than any other corner of the internet. If anything, I would say it is slightly more inclusive (though some of it definitely is not genuine, like the entire instance that will go full white knight mode).
The example, and what went on in the comments here is my first experience with this particular brand of transphobia. I’ve honestly had to do almost zero moderation in the trans focused community I made.
The amount of blatant hate that has been thrown my way (threatening and insulting DMs etc) has been about proportional to the user base here.
I’m sorry that drag has been the target of this kind of garbage, and thanks for making me aware of it. I hope drag keeps up the fight and doesn’t let people get drag down.
why do you refer to yourself in the third person? and why did you link to that comment thread at almost the end? i had to hit “show context” like 15 times to have any idea what the fuck was happening.
neither of these things are helping with people’s confusion. you are aggressively insisting that everyone understands and agrees with your viewpoint on a niche side of a niche community. you can’t expect people to understand the context without being deeeeep in that community. this is probably one of the most trans friendly spaces on the Internet. calling the space generally transphobic is a little too victim complexy.
anything that’s more of a safe space than this is going to be a complete and total echo chamber with no opposing or dissenting views on anything whatsoever. if you want to go somewhere where people can’t disagree with you, it sounds like your own discord server where you can ban people for that is the only option.
Drag uses person-independent drag/dragself pronouns.
i and me aren’t gendered pronouns. you’re just using the third person…
pronoun replacements like that are for he/him/her/herself/whatever. unless you’re implying that you aren’t you somehow? replacing first person pronouns like that just means you’re using the third person all the time.
why do you feel the need to do that? what is wrong with i and me? is "you’ out of bounds too?
That’s a whole lot of reply for having not even read what drag said. “person independent pronoun”. It’s a pronoun that functions indepent of first/second/third person case.
I reckon respecting pronouns means respecting pronouns, not just the ones you approve of. You wouldn’t try and tell somebody that their name or spelling thereof is wrong just because you don’t like it would ya?
I’m sorry i don’t know what person independent pronouns are. i am not deep in the trans community. I’m just trying to understand. being aggressive like this about genuinely complicated and nuanced things that 90% of the population doesn’t understand is a big part as what pushes people away from understanding.
why do they exist though? is it like a split personality thing? what does it mean to not identify with first person pronouns? just towing the line and doing what I’m told isn’t my style. i need to understand what I’m saying. it’s like the difference between using a math formula and understanding how it works. i don’t like using words that I don’t understand.
Drag would feel respected in drag’s gender identity if you used drag’s preferred second person pronouns, yes. But you don’t have to.
I’ll try, i don’t want to be disrespectful and I’m sorry if my tone has been a bit heavy.
can drag try to help me understand why drag feels that way? why don’t first person pronouns work for drag.
and man, it’s hard to avoid words that one uses through habit without thinking. I’ve had to edit this like five times to catch all of the “you’s”. it’s just not a layer of consciousness in my brain. i have to kind of break my brain to stop saying “you”. it feels like having to avoid saying “the”
First person pronouns work just fine for drag. Drag is a first person pronoun, and also a second and third person pronoun. That’s what person-independent means.
Drag likes it because it acknowledges drag’s identity as a dragon rider. Drag originally wanted to go with xi/drag person independent pronouns, which inflected differently depending on subject or object construction. But people confused drag for the Chinese president. So drag dropped the xi pronouns. A lot of people have complained they don’t like the drag pronouns, but most of them are reacting better than the first idea. Xi was a more traditional sounding subject form pronoun and people liked it even less.
that’s a lot of effort to ask of someone just because you like it. it feels like khaleesi requiring people to use her full title all the time. you and i are just a standard part of language that don’t diminish what one is. i am no less my name and my identity because i use i and me. those words just exist to make speaking easier and less clunky. and as i mentioned before, they’re such standard and thoughtless parts of language that it genuinely takes a lot of effort to avoid them for just one person. so I’ll use drag instead of any gendered pronouns, but you is just part of the English language that you don’t have a good reason for me to put that effort into avoiding.
so I’ll take you up on your former offer of not using drag instead of you. I won’t misgender you and call you something you’re not, but you’re still you. that’s not inaccurate. I’m not misidentifying you by saying that. I’m just not calling you you’re full title every time i speak. to me this is the same as not calling someone sir just because they think they deserve special treatment.
This entire time I just thought you were talking in the third person as some sort of novelty account.
(They are)