Somehow this is the only country on earth where this seems to happen. When talking about shootings involving guns, okay, fine, the US is certainly an outlier there, but every country has cars and police.
This is murder.
So some neckbeard republicans are going to come out and say “She should have just complied”, but honestly what is the absolute worst scinerio if she WAS shop-lifting? In what world is it not a better option to just get her FUCKING CAR’S license-plate number, track her to her house, then arrest her there when she’s clearly cornered? Or just boot her car when it’s found again and force her to come to you to get it off?
Because now you’ve killed a woman and her unborn baby over some God damn groceries.
The headline “Pregnant lady caught shoplifting groceries; arrested” would already be telling of a society that has gone far over the edge.
In this timeline, the edge is so far gone that it’s faded into myth.
I thought it was alcohol?
If this is a jurisdiction that says embryos are people then that cop executed a completely innocent person.
That would require logical consistency. I would never accuse a republican of such a thing.
Shhh… don’t point out their own hypocrisy
What I want to do is make a satirical video game about complying perfectly with a police officer’s requests, and show just how hard it is.
Throw in mixups where the player might be confronted by armed criminals, just to make sure players instill themselves with a sense of self-preservation.
What I want to do is make a satirical video game about complying perfectly with a police officer’s requests, and show just how hard it is.
I agree that she shouldn’t have been shot.
In what world is it not a better option to just get her FUCKING CAR’S license-plate number,
She was driving a car without license plates, which is unusual.
Young got into a four-door Lexus sedan that did not have a license plate and was illegally parked in a handicapped spot, Belford said.
Okay but at that point shoot the tyres??
The argument will be that she was trying to use her car as a deadly weapon because she accelerated into an officer standing in front of the car.
Which falls apart when you watch the cops body cam footage and see that never even happened
Unsurprisingly you have downvotes too.
Or, you could deal with the issue when and where it arises? Seriously, some of the commenters here are trying to rewrite history.
She drove at a police officer dude.
She drove away from a police officer who intentionally stepped out in front of the car.
Also that’s some grade a level hypocrisy right there.
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She should have complied for sure, but non-compliance shouldn’t mean execution by firing squad.
Sorry, I’m just gonna repeat that for the folks in the back…
NONCOMPLIANCE SHOULDN’T MEAN EXECUTION BY FIRING SQUAD
I pretty sure she drove her car into a wall because she was bleeding to death. I don’t think that was really a decision.
Probably thought they were going to kill her anyway, since cops be doing that on the regular.
she should have just complied,
I’m surprised there isn’t an automod bot to filter out cliche comments exactly like this
Is nit that she shop lifted, is that she tried to run over the officer
If she was trying to run him over, she did a really shitty job. The cop put himself in front of the vehicle and she turned her steering wheel the wrong direction and didn’t slam the accelerator. I think if anything the cop was trying to be run over, not the other way around.
Its not about “doing a good job” or not. She had the intent. Its all it takes for an officer or even a person to defend themselfs
You’re not getting it. He wasn’t trying to defend himself, he was intentionally putting himself in a place of danger to justify murder in the name of defense.
Amazing how cops are put in that position. Putting yourself intentionally in a place of danger to do your job. We have to thank every single one of them
How’s that boot taste?
She clearly did not have intent. The cop just placed himself in front of the car. If he wasn’t there she still would have driven forward. She didn’t drive forward because he was there. It wasn’t intent to run him over, it was intent to flee. The cop had intent to be in the cars path though.
“Yes, sir, officer sir! How many licks?”
How many items you took aithout paying?
I thought it wasn’t about her shoplifting? Make up your mind.
Oh, I’m sorry. It’s not about any of that, is it? It’s just about whatever you need to excuse a government agent murdering an American citizen without a proper trial by jury.
Do us all a favor and never pretend you respect the United States Constitution ever again.
When did that become a death sentence without a judge and jury?
She clearly didn’t try to run him over though, so what’s it really about?
She does not have to.
You can clearly see her turn the wheel away from the officer, and she doesn’t slam on the gas, she just accelerates at a normal speed. Not that that matters to you, you just love jacking off to pigs murdering people and don’t want to question for one second how shoplifting and resisting arrest is supposed to justify murder
The hell is wrong with this country. Shoplifting is not violent crime. If they flee put out an arrest warrant and they’ll turn up later, in a lot more trouble.
Cops are well aware standing in front of a car gives them a free pass killing someone who attempts to escape. It’s totally unnecessary pointless murder.
It’s totally unnecessary pointless murder.
It’s an execution. Someone accused of a crime doesn’t get a trial or a chance to defend themselves. Someone with a gun makes a decision to end their life on the spot.
Cops are well aware standing in front of a car gives them a free pass killing someone who attempts to escape.
Not to mention, standing in front of a car driven by a POC who has every reason to expect the cops to shoot them anyway. That person is already frightened and likely panicked and not thinking clearly. Putting yourself in front of a car with a panicked driver who is justifiably in fear for their life is incredibly stupid.
Also, what is with cops just repeating the same command over and over again and refusing to otherwise interact with the person. Are they trying to make the situation worse? Why not try and de-escalate the situation. Oh, that’s right, they want a reason to shoot people.
Are they trying to make the situation worse?
Yes, because it lets them use lethal force like the jack booted thugs they want to be.
it’s the fucked up warrior mindset culture at work, domination is all they are taught
Cops are well aware standing in front of a car gives them a free pass killing someone
This “technique” has been demonstrated enough that frankly, I think that any rational person would conclude that in any situation where a cop walks in front of your car, you’re better off just gunning it before the cop has a chance to extrajudicially execute you first. If they walk in front of your car, it’s clear they’re just itching to murder you. The threat has been made, you should fear for your life. It’s you or them.
That’s not unreasonable. Maybe under Montana common law argument would work.
I think that any rational person would conclude that in any situation where a cop walks in front of your car, you’re better off just gunning it before the cop has a chance to extrajudicially execute you first.
Who upvotes this crap? This is worse than reddit.
Debate it.
Running from police in a high crime area used to be considered probable cause.
That’s changing now because running from police in a high crime area is an eminently reasonable thing to do even if you’re innocent.
If the tactic is demonstrably employed as a pretextual justification to kill nonviolent criminal suspects, than it’s reasonable to say that statutory law of resisting arrest should be the thing that breaks, not the natural law of self defense.
You want me to debate against someone saying you should floor it any time police walk in front of your car??
I can’t think of any other reason for a cop to place himself in front of a car. It’s dangerous and it’s not going to stop a car. It really only can be to provide an excuse for deadly force.
So every time a cop steps in front of someone’s car they’re planning on executing them…
Nah. If a pig wants to kill me, I’m doing my damndest to make sure it comes with me
If you floor it and run into a cop just because they walk in front of your car, you deserve to get shot because the cop would be defending themselves.
If dude’s aiming a gun at my face cause of some groceries?? He deserves what he gets.
Maybe try de-escalating instead of over-escalating. In NO situation should a suspected shoplifting end in a murder.
If she tried to run, guess what? They can literally just track her down and move to arrest when lives aren’t in danger.
He unnecessarily and intentionally put himself in harm’s way, in an intense situation with a terrified suspect. He knew what he was doing.
Fuck off with your tyrant apologia bullshit.
You’re a violent moron.
Holy fucking irony.
Oh, oof, owwie
Why do you all care so much if you’re upvoted or not?
Yeah it didn’t take long, every thread is filled with this bullshit
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That’s what happens when your cops aren’t trained in de-escalation.
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Also keep in mind, businesses usually have insurance against theft.
To anyone saying she tried to run over the officer, please watch the body cam footage. She is turning the wheel as much as possible to steer the vehicle away from the officer. On top of that, she pulled forward very slowly. If you were trying to run someone over, you would not give them every opportunity to avoid being hit by the vehicle.
Stop licking boots
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Getting shot over shoplifting is insane.
The usa is fucked beyond saving
American fascists continue to prove their belief that property damage isn’t an acceptable response to murder, but murder is an acceptable response to property damage.
Couldn’t have said it any better
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The social contract is breaking.
I do not understand why it is so common for police in this country to stand in front of a car and then shoot the driver when the car moves. It’s a manufactured danger and really does not seem like a smart idea to use your weapon to put a corpse in control of a heavy machine.
What’s not to understand? Their goal is the expression of power, the suspect’s escape is completely non optional to them. They are not trained in de-escalation.
So, by placing their body on the line (in the path of the giant metal machine), they are essentially saying “obey me, or you are willing to kill me if you try to escape”. So if you try to escape, you are willing to kill them. So if you are willing to kill them, they are free to defend themselves.
It is crazy, but consistent logic.
Remember they aren’t there to help, or protect, but to enforce.
They stand in front so that they can shoot the driver.
You can’t play chicken with someone and then shoot them if you get scared. You have to either swerve or get hit, that’s why it’s called chicken.
They don’t care as long as they get to murder someone.
You do understand why. What you said is exactly why. They are manufacturing a danger so that they are legally allowed to use lethal force against anyone for any small crime. All the police do in the USA is escalate, escalate, escalate
This is the first reasonable response to this I’ve seen. They have a vehicle, block the car in with it perhaps?
Not justifying the driver’s actions in any way, but it did seem strange to me.
Because they can, and bootlickers will make excuses for them
How should this have been handles instead? If she really really doesn’t want to comply, You write down her license place, and you let her go.
That simple.
You have her face on video, you have the license plate, it’s trivial to then go visit her at her home and have a talk. Hell, follow her if you have to, but not in a high speed chase. Just keep your distance, let her go where she wants to go until she’s done.
Worst case scenario, you just let her go.
This extreme focus on that every petty little thing MUST be stopped, every small time offender MUST comply only ends in this. Suffering.
Instead focus on fixing poverty and you know, making sure that pregnant women have all they need so that they don’t need to steal? That is why we banned abortion, no? Because we care about babies?
Oh yeah that’s right. We care about unborn fetuses, but born babies can get fucked.
Let this woman have an abortion if she can’t afford a baby. Now she doesn’t need to shoplift, at least not for the baby
Lift people out of poverty. Push people to be better educated. THOSE are things that will actually lower crime rates but then it means they ml o longer are the common pulp that can stand on
Why are we shooting shoplifters? What kind of immanent threat did she present?
I wonder if the cop will be prosecuted for providing an unlawful abortion.
I mean, could he not just have taken the license plate number then sent agents to go knock on her door later? This is shoplifting, not armed robbery.
could he not just have taken the license plate number then sent agents to go knock on her door later?
No. She was driving a car without license plates, which is unusual.
Young got into a four-door Lexus sedan that did not have a license plate and was illegally parked in a handicapped spot, Belford said.
However, I do not believe that fact justifies shooting her.
She drove forward with the officer directly in front of the vehicle. Regardless of what happened previously, thats an action that could kill someone.
Isn’t it kinda stupid of the police officer to put himself in that dangerous position. He could just as well have let her go and find her later or follow her. Trying to stop a car by standing in front of it is imo. just stupid and unprofessional.
US cops are the kind to pull out a guy’s multitool, fold out the knife, put it in the guy’s hand, grab their hand and hold it at their own throat.
Then waiting for them to twitch, so they can shoot them dead.
Standing in front of the car wasn’t a smart thing to do, I agree with you there. “Let her go and find her later” isn’t really how it works though.
This exactly how it works in normal countries. She was not robing a bank she was just shop lifting. You get the license plates and invite her to court some time later.
Nah, you don’t get to just drive away from the police anywhere, sorry. Most would use less lethal means to stop her, but I don’t think any competent force would just let her leave.
Can’t speak for anywhere else, but can speak for personal experience, here in Italy “take the license plate” or “get in the police car and follow her” would be our procedure. She has not pulled out a weapon, and law enforcement is not supposed to escalate anything, ever. (Exceptions might apply, poorly trained officers exists). Even if she pulled a gun, probably we’d just try to evacuate everyone in the area and call for reinforcements before thinking of pulling out our firearms.
On average we get 5 police deaths in a year out of about 300-350 thousands agents, so I guess it works well enough.
(and yes, I do realize that in US there’s a lot of armed and trigger happy civilians, but that’s just another issue to solve. If a civilian needs a gun for self protection , there’s something really really wrong with society in my opinion)
That is literally the standard procedure for dealing with shoplifters.
And also this woman wasn’t the shoplifter.
The cop deliberately walked in front of her car and pointed a gun at her. She panicked. I’d probably panic too if someone pointed a gun at me. Granted, I probably wouldn’t have drove forward, but it was entirely possible for the cop to not have walked in front of her car, for him not to have pulled a gun. It seems like him pulling the gun is what caused this.
Flooring it at someone, yes. Slowly moving forward and turning away, not so much.
You can definitely kill someone by slowly driving over them
So maybe cops should be smart and not jump in front of/on top of moving cars. But then again, we already know they aren’t hired for being smart.
That is a valid point.
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Yeah probably not the best to drive at police. Amazed that even needs to be said and isn’t obvious to most people
Man, there’s some cooked people in here.
You could murder an officer in cold blood and they’d find a way to justify it.
You say that in a thread about a woman murdered by an officer in cold blood. Wow.
Having someone trying to run you over isn’t “in cold blood”
Good grief.
Except that guy isn’t dead. The woman is. The cop has plenty of opportunities to do a really big part of his job, de-escalate, rather than do the opposite, position himself in front of her vehicle and immediately point a gun at her. He went right for the death threat and almost immediately delivered.
Just the fact she has to shoplift probably also means she has very little money or is struggling to get buy on her sallery. She’s getting a baby soon and is maybe trying to save up because the US has no proper help to offer. Being shot and murdered by the police for a relatively harmles crime is beyond crazy for a society to accept. The policeman should be arrested for murder and abuse of power and Final put behind bars
That’s fucking horrible.
First off, I wish they would show the full uncut raw footage. People need to see the reality of getting shot.
Second, he literally just pulls the gun out and says “get out of the car.” Like, what the fuck man? Get out of the car or I’m going to shoot you? For stealing from a fucking kroger? One of the biggest businesses in the US?
Dude. This is bullshit. He needs criminal charges.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ending_Qualified_Immunity_Act
If you want this to stop, force your representatives to finally vote this into law.
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You don’t even need to shoot them, just get a couple dozen of ya boys and arm up and open carry.
Black Panthers did it and cops stopped patrolling their neighborhoods, which is what the BP wanted.
Republicans got so fucking scared, Reagan, their fucking NeoLiberal Gawd, passed gun control laws!
Seriously tho, we need more open 2A leftists
Is there a carry focused community here on lemmy?
I had found !jbrc@lemmy.world when Lemmy kicked off during the API scandal, but it seems to never have really caught on.
How do you think this approach will end, genius?
We need some real brave mothsfuckers for that… But it is something I want to see too… some real push back against the bullies… I can’t understand how it hasn’t started yet
As someone who lived in Dallas at the time, shooting back does effect change. It’s anecdotal but encounters with police really seemed to be less confrontational following this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers
Are you really that far off the deep end?
force your representatives to finally vote this into law.
Lol. We’d have to vote for new reps. And as soon as we do, the ruling class just spends more money on campaigns to make sure we don’t get any power.
OMG, I saw this story on FB, AND every fucking comment was praising the cop! Telling her she deserved it for trying to run away… things like she would have been a terrible mom anyways… just some awful things while the run their hard ons for the cops… It was sickening… I am 23 weeks pregnant with my second son right now and watching people praise her death because she stole something is so bizarre and jarring… I’m pregnant… What if this was a misunderstanding and he had bad information… she didn’t steal a thing and scared of cops tried to get away and now she is dead… Cops are fuckiing scary but not as much as people who want this outcome for stealing some groceries
Edit: some of these comments defending the cop, who put his life in danger on his own so he could have the excuse to kill her, is chilling… You are the reason I made my comment and the reason why I am getting scared of my community… because too many of the people in society want to see someone from some group they hate, hurt or dead by police… Fucking sickening. Shoplifting is not an excuse to use lethal force to stop anyone… the punishment doesn’t fit the crime… people saying it does, are rabid dogs who wish it was them in the cops shoes, feeling powerful… and that’s even more sickening. She left behind a 6 year old because thd pig couldnt have figured out another way to handle the situation… he failed a basic IQ test and too many people are like… “Kay, cool”. Idiocracy was and is a fucking a documentary and y’all just want a gladiator type entertainment with your own people
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I hope you get to have an interaction with a cop that shatters your sheltered views, as i did. Of course that you live to tell others as well.
I shrug…I had a cop draw on me. I followed directions and I’m still alive. I didn’t burn down the city because I did something stupid.
I had a cop draw on me.
I’d like to hear more about this.
Got out of a car during a traffic stop to smoke a cigarette. The cop drew, I almost peed myself, I listened to instructions, the end.
Gosh man that must’ve been scary as hell. Glad everything worked out. Did he just draw? Did he point it at you? Did you ignore his order to stay in the car in the first place?
i swear this isn’t an attempt to correlate your story with the story we’re commenting on, but in you’re story specifically do you think that drawing his weapon in your case was justified?
The full story is, I was drunk, my DD was getting a speeding ticket. It was a long ass drive home, so I got out to smoke after she takes all the initial paperwork and goes back to the car.
We are pretty clearly not a threat. Me, wife 2 kids. I’m pretty hammered and it seemed like a good idea.
I know better than to get out during a traffic stop.
But the cop got back out of her car, immediately drew and screamed at me to get back in the car. I did so and ate a speech about how dumb I was.
Do I think the cop was justified in drawing? Absolutely. We are on the side of the highway, in the dark, and the cop didn’t have backup. I fully accept that I fucked up when I got out of the car. You just don’t do that during a routine stop without asking permission first.
Let’s say at that point, instead of getting back in, I turn on the cop and advance on her and have some attitude about her yelling and pointing the gun…at that point she’d be justified in shooting me.
TLDR…I fucked up, the cop did the right thing in that situation, and while scary as hell, the cop was in the right the whole time. My
Yeah wtf, she should have left a thin blue streak on the asphalt
Trying to run over an officer, you mean? She didn’t just try and run away, she drove directly towards a police officer.
You really need to reevaluate your thinking if you think untrained civilians have a higher burden than supposedly trained professionals, especially after watching that video
If only cops weren’t rooted to the ground and could jump out of the way of a car…
It would be ideal if she didn’t try and kill him in the first place though.
Always interesting that people demand average citizens behave more reasonably than so-called trained police. It’s like you accept the presumption that any cop is likely to overreact in murder, therefore the onus is on US not to escalate situations. Interesting how the apologists don’t think cops bear any responsibility for de-escalation.
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You’re being disingenuous Monday morning qb’ing. Police are supposedly trained in de-escalation. I am not excusing the behavior, but I can understand a random untrained citizen having fear and unpredictable bad decision-making in a situation like this. Whereas the cops absolutely have countless other things they could do that are calmer and more de-escalating.
Ultimately, basic theft isn’t worth death. The problem is that cops have unilaterally decided it is completely unacceptable to not listen to them, up to death. They could have followed her. They could have let her go. There are numerous alternatives that could have happened. Cops in America have endlessly shown they are trigger happy twitchy and rushing to escalate.
The burden is on trained police to behave better than a random person does. This doesn’t excuse her behavior. But the cops are NOT justified either.
I understand this nuance is lost on most.
This doesn’t excuse her behavior. But the cops are NOT justified either.
You’re far more level headed than most of the commenters here. Yeah, the police could definitely have handled this better as well.
You keep saying that. "Trying to run over ". No fucking way you could convince me that she wanted to run over that cop! If she wanted him dead, why didn’t she just punch it? Floor the peddle and turn the wheel toward him.
How about maybe the police firstly don’t escalate the situation to that point because she was just accused of shoplifting and secondly don’t jump in front of her car in the first place?
Don’t they spend like 1000 hours training people about all the safety precautions of a standard road stop, since it has about a dozen dangers - and “standing directly in front of a suspect’s vehicle” ranks somewhere among the dumbest things you can do?
Heck, I caution myself against doing it even when walking around the city, even if all I want to do is warn someone about an obstacle. I’m no freaking roadblock.
She cranked the wheel all the way away from him. She was trying to go around. Officer “no self preservation” was a dipshit and blocked in a two ton machine with his own body.
Yeah, did people not even watch the footage? You’d have to be braindead to try anything like that to cops nowadays, it’s a death sentence
What exactly do you mean by "cops nowadays*?
Do you mean do not try that because they will shoot at your for close to no reason?
Or do you mean cops are extremely dangerous, just be the most agreeable prey they come across.
Let’s do a quick test, you see a car driving at you 60mph, the only thing you have is your gun, and your legs.
You can:
A) get out of the way and live
B) shoot the driver (which would not at all stop the car)
Now let’s try this stupid shit one more time at 5mph.
There is ZERO reason to discharge a firearm at this person, for evading arrest, shoplifting, etc. This is an UNARMED PREGNANT WOMAN.
Imagine thinking this is the right way to handle this you fucking animal.
Doesn’t matter in the slightest if this is the “right way to handle this”, it’s the reality of the situation where it’s pretty well documented that they’re going to choose their lives over yours if you give them a reason to (say for example driving your car directly at them like a braindead moron)
bro she was driving slower than I can run. The cop quite literally put himself in front of the car to give himself a justification for killing her.
… You take two steps to the left to move out of the way of the car, or, here’s a fantastic idea, you don’t step out in front of a fucking car in the first place???
Well, either way, Ohio has a no excuses abortion law, so the officer needs to be charged.
Doesn’t matter? This woman was almost a child herself, she lost her life at 21 years old over a bunch of power tripping cops. How fucking dare you. You need to reevaluate what matters.
Part of being a an officer is being able to keep your shit together when civilians do not. Don’t sit here and act like you’d think rationally while a bunch of guns are pointed at you knowing damn well your chances of survival are significantly lower just because your skin is a different color. I seriously cannot grasp how you’re okay writing these comments. You should be ashamed of yourself, seriously.
“Cops are likely to murder you, and we just accept this, so act accordingly.”
It’s a stupid idea with any police force, although you’re a lot less likely to get shot in almost any other country.
Yep and for people in the US they should been keenly aware that there’s a non zero possibly of being shot by police if they feel threatened. That’s just how it is.
Almost anyone in the US will shoot you if threatened though.
As the fetus is now legally a person and did nothing wrong the officer who fired the shots should be arrested for homicide.
So double murder and illegal abortion too.
I bet you could probably trick some pro lifers into pursuing this. There’s enough true believers.
If it’s not obvious those rules are in place to punish women. Not to protect. They will never ever be applied in a protective way. That’s not what they were made for.
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