• nanook@friendica.eskimo.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    2 days ago

    @aeischeid For anyone capable of basic logic it would have been. Obviously having services readily available is not tyrannical, being unable to travel is, what other significant aspects of 15 minute cities are there? Do you really want your life controlled to this degree?

    • sthetic@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      23 hours ago

      Has anyone ever actually said, “I think we should have all services within a zone of 15-minute travel, and we should restrict people from leaving their zone, and this is called 15 Minute Cities and I support that idea”?

      “Having services readily available” is the entire idea. “You’re not allowed to go to another area” is nonsense that someone else tacked on to the concept to make people hate it.

      • nanook@friendica.eskimo.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        21 hours ago

        @sthetic But that’s not what they are doing. In Oxford, they blocked off most of the streets between the cities sections with planters forcing you to go to an outer ring, after people threatened to hang the city council they reneg’d but if you aren’t vigilant this is what they do.

        • sthetic@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          6 hours ago

          I looked this up and found this information about it:

          In its Local Plan 2040, Oxford City Council proposed installing elements from the 15-minute city urban concept in neighborhoods throughout the city over the next 20 years. These plans included proposals to improve accessibility to local shops and other amenities for residents so they didn’t have to always drive. Separately, Oxfordshire County Council announced traffic-reducing measures throughout the city, with infrastructure to encourage car travel around the city by using the ring road rather than already congested roads. Initial opposition to the plans led to proposals to introduce permit schemes to facilitate car travel at certain times, allowing car access to areas that the council planned to restrict to motorists.

          First, the article says it was separate. Nobody said, “We are blocking everybody’s access to this road because the goal of 15-Minute City is to restrict people and forbid them from leaving their zone.”

          Second, it was just traffic-calming. They put up some planters blocking roads to vehicles to encourage access by bike, pedestrians, etc. That’s not restricting access, that is INCREASING access. By bikes.

          They decided that a different, busier road was more appropriate for cars. How on earth does that equate to restricting access? So your car had to drive further, using a big busy road instead of a local quiet street - boo-hoo! This, to you, was a sign that the government wants to confine you to a 15 minute area and never let you leave?

          Are the following measures, to you, a sign of nefarious “restricting access”?

          • An ambulance can drive the wrong way down the street, but you cannot
          • A bus can travel in a bus lane, but you cannot
          • A commercial vehicle can park in a loading zone, but you cannot
          • A vehicle with several people can travel in a special HOV lane, but you cannot if you are driving alone
          • A toll bridge reads your license plate to check if you paid a fee to access that route, and charges you a fine if you did not
          • The city takes out a vehicle lane to build a dedicated bike lane and plant some nice shrubs
          • The city closes a street temporarily for a neighbourhood block party
          • The city installs speed bumps on a quiet street
          • The city builds a traffic circle at a quiet intersection
          • The city puts up a sign limiting the speed you can travel
          • A highway cuts through an existing quiet suburb, meaning your car cannot cross it on a quiet street; you have to use an onramp and get on the busy highway

          All of those technically “restrict access” by your seeming definition. Well, at least by vehicle. Is it your assertion that private vehicles reign supreme, and if the government does anything to slow down, discourage, or increase the cost of vehicle travel, it means their future goal is to create walled mini-cities that folks can’t leave?

          Edit: also, you say that people threatened to hang the city council to get them to renege - are you proud of this? Your “side” is threatening to murder people if they don’t govern the way they want, and that’s just “being vigilant”? To prevent planters from being placed on a street? What the hell?

    • ebolapie@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      2 days ago

      I have literally never seen the idea of a 15 minute city being restrictive anywhere other than the ravings of Alex Jones tier wingnuts. Everybody who actually pushes the concept just thinks you should have a grocery store, a doctor’s office, a library etc. near your house.

      Edit: and don’t get it twisted, nobody is saying you should be forced to relocate either, it’s a guideline for urban planning.