On the topic of NG/CA, I think your concerns and experiences are 100% valid. Like I said, I think it is pushed way to hard as “the way to meet girls”, when actual success rates are rock bottom. I think you are holding on to some limiting beliefs on this front, but at the same time, I don’t think they are worth addressing at the moment. You’d do much better focusing on SC and OLD. If you wanna try to pick up girls in the club - at any age - I think it is possible and I think you have a shot if you put the work in. But it’s inefficient and there are easier ways to meet girls that won’t fuck up your circadian rhythm. It sounds like you don’t wanna do that, so good! Don’t do that. Same with CA.
Also, you hit the nail on the head with how dating advice is doled out. It is at once extremely generalizable and extremely specific to the individual.
On the other hand, you say you lack a good social circle, and in my opinion, that will be a big hurdle you will have trouble avoiding. I would like to gently recommend that you consider that you might not be as introverted as you think you are, but that you feel introverted because of your social anxiety. That your social battery doesn’t run low just because that is the way you are, but because it is draining to feel anxious and to hide yourself and to feel like you will be judged and rejected in social situations. This isn’t to say that you need to spend every minute of every day out meeting with people - but you seem you almost seem committed to not being social. And the reality is… women want to date guys who have friends. They want to date guys who have a good social support system outside of them, so they don’t become the guy’s emotional dumping ground. The friends you have and your ability to make new friends has a huge impact on where you will be able to go in life, your success in your career, your ability to take care of yourself, etc. Humans are social animals, and not being social at all is going to be a big red flag to a lot of women.
I 100% support you seeing a sex therapist. Professionals exist for a reason. I wouldn’t depend on your therapist to solve all your problems - you have to be the captain of your own ship - but therapy definitely sounds like a piece of the puzzle for you.
As far as the 15 years spent on lifestyle - I think you can do it faster. What those years were spent on were overcoming social anxiety, building a community of supportive friends, establishing habits around diet and exercise, getting my career to the place where I didn’t hate my job, finding hobbies I enjoyed and getting good at them, and then also a lot of pointless floundering. I got myself from being completely isolated, hopeless, and depressed, to being hopeful and somewhat happy, with communities based around things that I found personally meaningful. Ie, I created a life that some women would find interesting and want to be part of. So when I actually buckled down and made a tinder profile, I was already pretty fit and had cool hobbies to show off and a good lifestyle to talk about.
In terms of meeting people and stuff, this is one problem: I kinda had to ditch many old ‘friends’ because they weren’t really friends. I barely knew them and the one girl I did date did ask me why I was hanging out with those people when they clearly didn’t give a fuck about me. What happened at that time is that I did some drinking prior to going to that event with them, and while it was far from my first time drinking, the alcohol hit me really hard for some reason and I wasn’t looking and feeling good. Despite being visibly unwell, no one asked me if I was doing OK or even had any visible reaction to me. This did not sit well with her at all.
And yes, that ‘circle’ of mine was very offputting for her and she did mention to me that I didn’t seem to have any friends. The thing is… I wasn’t really aware of it at that time. Like I said, I had one HELL of an abusive upbringing that I wasn’t even aware of just how abusive it was until well after the time it was gone.
This isn’t to say I cannot build a social circle or a better life. I think I absolutely can. But here’s the thing: I have a lifetime of doing things solo and I am quite comfortable with that. Also I do have a lot of support at my job. I work at a place specifically made for people with disabilities to accommodate them. I had really hard times making friends in the past and I didn’t really know what being friends was with people. I got taken advantage of too much by some individuals and that really got me wary of a lot of shit.
I am trying to rebuild my life, and part of it has to involve (early on… as early as possible actually) to get a girlfriend. I always keep a small circle of friends when I do have them and I would rather keep it that way. I am picky about that for a reason. I want to convey that, no I will not be using her as an emotional dumping ground. That’s just not style. It never was.
I mean, I think the problem you are talking about is actually a solution. You ditched a bunch of people who were your “friends”, but who didn’t actually care about you. Good! That’s what you should do! Building a good social circle isn’t about being friends with literally everyone, and it isn’t about staying friends with people who don’t value you - it is about finding the people who value you for who you are, and who actually give a shit about you.
Your abusive upbringing, your experience having bad friends - I don’t wanna say that shit doesn’t suck. But my advice here is to look for the lesson that you can learn. I’m not religious, and “everything happens for a reason” doesn’t resonate for me - but I do believe that in every painful human experience, there is an opportunity for growth and learning if you look for it. So with your shitty friends, you learned something about how you don’t like to be treated. You learned about some personal standards you will hold future friends to. Same with every other time you got taken advantage of - you learned what shitty people do, how they manipulate you, what warning signs to look out for. Every time you have a shit experience, you learn more and more about how to identify the assholes so you can filter them out of your life quickly and efficiently.
The fact that you are comfortable doing things solo is great. Being able to feel good and get shit done on your own is a foundation of living well. But at the same time, I wouldn’t use it as an excuse to retreat from social life. However far you can go solo, whatever you can accomplish, however good you can feel, I guarantee that you’ll be able to go farther and get there faster, with less effort, with friends - good friends.
I am trying to rebuild my life, and part of it has to involve (early on… as early as possible actually) to get a girlfriend.
This is an awesome goal, and I 100% support you. However, I recommend you reframe this to “I want to rebuild my life, and part of it is becoming the type of man who is confident in his ability to get a girlfriend.” Because when your goal is just “get a girlfriend”, you can end up with someone who isn’t a good match for you just because that was your goal. And if you don’t feel confident that you can get another girlfriend, it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking “well, she’s good enough, it’s not like I could do any better” or “I don’t like it when she does that, but I better not say anything or she’ll leave.”
I always keep a small circle of friends when I do have them and I would rather keep it that way. I am picky about that for a reason.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with having a small circle of close friends. I’m not recommending, like, trying to get 100k followers on IG and calling them all friends or some shit. But the “when I do have them” part is concerning. If you only have 3 people you consider friends, but none of them are that close and you periodically lose them, then you have a very shaky social support system. What you should aim for is having a small circle of really close, really supportive friends who you are fairly certain will not ditch you. But no one just shows up in your life and immediately becomes a close confidant - you meet acquaintances, then those acquaintances become loose friends, then regular friends, then close friends. At each stage, most people in each level will not make it to the next level for whatever reason. Meanwhile, your small circle of close friends will often shrink for one reason or another - hopefully for good reasons, like a friend getting their dream job on the other side of the country. But that means in order to maintain your strong social support system, you need to always be feeding your friendship pipeline. If this sounds Machiavellian, I can assure you that in practice, it isn’t. It just looks like doing things like what you are already doing, like going to meetups, meeting new people, spending more time with people you like, not spending time with those you don’t, and becoming comfortable opening up emotionally to the people you like the most.
I want to convey that, no I will not be using her as an emotional dumping ground. That’s just not style. It never was.
I will say that if you have never used a girlfriend as an emotional dumpster, then you probably will soon. It’s kind of just an inevitable part of the process of becoming a more dateable man. You have a bunch of pent up shit, and then you end up finally feeling close enough to someone to open up, and then it ALL comes out. Therapy can be helpful, but isn’t really the same as dumping all your shit on someone you know. I’ll also say that if you aren’t talking to people in your life about your worst shit, you aren’t really making the progress towards emotional openness that you need to form good relationships long term. Your eventual goal should be to have a solid group of friends you can talk about your deep shit with, plus a therapist, plus a girlfriend. That’s called redundancy.
Well I do have friends, and yes they are pretty solid. Not many, but I guess maybe I already have that handled? I guess I misworded my statement there.
However they aren’t the type of friends you meet girls through. Like I said, I am autistic and all my friends are neurodivergent in some way. One of them was married, had kids, divorced, got engaged, broke up, and is currently single, the other hasn’t had a girlfriend for a long time, but he does have his own fairly active social life and is very active in the autism community… and I am actually kinda surprised he doesn’t have a girlfriend since he does associate with a lot of people with cool artistic lifestyles (and he himself is fairly artistic). I know a few other people, even if I don’t see them regularly, I am in contact with them.
So finding a girl will have to be a solitary activity like everything else I do. Not that that is a bad thing, and I am sure there are plenty of introverted girls who would be fine with everything. I am not looking for some party gal, I am not compatible with them. Also I am not looking for one-night stands. As much as I said in the past that I wonder what it would be like to bone new girls regularly, I seriously doubt it would be satisfying in both the short-term and long-term.
I should mention that… yes, I did go to gang-bangs and orgies. Most of my sex partners were through there, and I did get compliments from the girls many times (legit ones). However that is when I realized that impersonal sex is not something I want to do. Not to say I wouldn’t go to one of those again, but the groups that organized them appear to be defunct now.
BTW, those groups are the way I learned I had a big dick. When I was with my first ‘girlfriend’ (and she is one reason why I still have many sexual hang ups. The story of my first sexual experience ever is… not pleasant. Like even many PUAs who had sex with a parade of partners said they would have given up women and sex if they had an experience like that) the condom seemed to break a lot. I didn’t ejaculate, not even precum, so no pregnancy risk… but I didn’t understand it.
Turns out? Well, I needed magnum condoms. Magnum XL condoms are more comfortable. I know this is a TMI situation, but I am not doing it as a brag or anything, but this was a practical concern. I would not have sex without a condom, and I have never wanted children, so the condoms stay on for obvious reasons…
But my experience with that girl will mean that going forward, even if I might be getting sexual with a girl, I need to make sure that we are compatible to be with one another for a while first, otherwise I am not proceeding.
I will say that if you have never used a girlfriend as an emotional dumpster, then you probably will soon. It’s kind of just an inevitable part of the process of becoming a more dateable man.
Maybe I misworded that statement of mine, too. If you mean not opening up about stuff previously, then… well no, we all gotta know about one another’s pasts. My last girl frequently talked to me about her past (but me being 33 and her being 19 at the time kinda meant she was talking about her very recent childhood, which felt weird at first, but I realize that that is all she knew at that time), and I did mention my stuff. Her insight into it really did help me rethink a lot of stuff, which is why having a girlfriend is an important part of getting better, and not just ‘get better and get the girl’ it is ‘get better and gets girls while you are doing it, because they are part of the process’.
On the topic of NG/CA, I think your concerns and experiences are 100% valid. Like I said, I think it is pushed way to hard as “the way to meet girls”, when actual success rates are rock bottom. I think you are holding on to some limiting beliefs on this front, but at the same time, I don’t think they are worth addressing at the moment. You’d do much better focusing on SC and OLD. If you wanna try to pick up girls in the club - at any age - I think it is possible and I think you have a shot if you put the work in. But it’s inefficient and there are easier ways to meet girls that won’t fuck up your circadian rhythm. It sounds like you don’t wanna do that, so good! Don’t do that. Same with CA.
Also, you hit the nail on the head with how dating advice is doled out. It is at once extremely generalizable and extremely specific to the individual.
On the other hand, you say you lack a good social circle, and in my opinion, that will be a big hurdle you will have trouble avoiding. I would like to gently recommend that you consider that you might not be as introverted as you think you are, but that you feel introverted because of your social anxiety. That your social battery doesn’t run low just because that is the way you are, but because it is draining to feel anxious and to hide yourself and to feel like you will be judged and rejected in social situations. This isn’t to say that you need to spend every minute of every day out meeting with people - but you seem you almost seem committed to not being social. And the reality is… women want to date guys who have friends. They want to date guys who have a good social support system outside of them, so they don’t become the guy’s emotional dumping ground. The friends you have and your ability to make new friends has a huge impact on where you will be able to go in life, your success in your career, your ability to take care of yourself, etc. Humans are social animals, and not being social at all is going to be a big red flag to a lot of women.
I 100% support you seeing a sex therapist. Professionals exist for a reason. I wouldn’t depend on your therapist to solve all your problems - you have to be the captain of your own ship - but therapy definitely sounds like a piece of the puzzle for you.
As far as the 15 years spent on lifestyle - I think you can do it faster. What those years were spent on were overcoming social anxiety, building a community of supportive friends, establishing habits around diet and exercise, getting my career to the place where I didn’t hate my job, finding hobbies I enjoyed and getting good at them, and then also a lot of pointless floundering. I got myself from being completely isolated, hopeless, and depressed, to being hopeful and somewhat happy, with communities based around things that I found personally meaningful. Ie, I created a life that some women would find interesting and want to be part of. So when I actually buckled down and made a tinder profile, I was already pretty fit and had cool hobbies to show off and a good lifestyle to talk about.
I’ll dm you the tinder guide.
In terms of meeting people and stuff, this is one problem: I kinda had to ditch many old ‘friends’ because they weren’t really friends. I barely knew them and the one girl I did date did ask me why I was hanging out with those people when they clearly didn’t give a fuck about me. What happened at that time is that I did some drinking prior to going to that event with them, and while it was far from my first time drinking, the alcohol hit me really hard for some reason and I wasn’t looking and feeling good. Despite being visibly unwell, no one asked me if I was doing OK or even had any visible reaction to me. This did not sit well with her at all.
And yes, that ‘circle’ of mine was very offputting for her and she did mention to me that I didn’t seem to have any friends. The thing is… I wasn’t really aware of it at that time. Like I said, I had one HELL of an abusive upbringing that I wasn’t even aware of just how abusive it was until well after the time it was gone.
This isn’t to say I cannot build a social circle or a better life. I think I absolutely can. But here’s the thing: I have a lifetime of doing things solo and I am quite comfortable with that. Also I do have a lot of support at my job. I work at a place specifically made for people with disabilities to accommodate them. I had really hard times making friends in the past and I didn’t really know what being friends was with people. I got taken advantage of too much by some individuals and that really got me wary of a lot of shit.
I am trying to rebuild my life, and part of it has to involve (early on… as early as possible actually) to get a girlfriend. I always keep a small circle of friends when I do have them and I would rather keep it that way. I am picky about that for a reason. I want to convey that, no I will not be using her as an emotional dumping ground. That’s just not style. It never was.
I mean, I think the problem you are talking about is actually a solution. You ditched a bunch of people who were your “friends”, but who didn’t actually care about you. Good! That’s what you should do! Building a good social circle isn’t about being friends with literally everyone, and it isn’t about staying friends with people who don’t value you - it is about finding the people who value you for who you are, and who actually give a shit about you.
Your abusive upbringing, your experience having bad friends - I don’t wanna say that shit doesn’t suck. But my advice here is to look for the lesson that you can learn. I’m not religious, and “everything happens for a reason” doesn’t resonate for me - but I do believe that in every painful human experience, there is an opportunity for growth and learning if you look for it. So with your shitty friends, you learned something about how you don’t like to be treated. You learned about some personal standards you will hold future friends to. Same with every other time you got taken advantage of - you learned what shitty people do, how they manipulate you, what warning signs to look out for. Every time you have a shit experience, you learn more and more about how to identify the assholes so you can filter them out of your life quickly and efficiently.
The fact that you are comfortable doing things solo is great. Being able to feel good and get shit done on your own is a foundation of living well. But at the same time, I wouldn’t use it as an excuse to retreat from social life. However far you can go solo, whatever you can accomplish, however good you can feel, I guarantee that you’ll be able to go farther and get there faster, with less effort, with friends - good friends.
This is an awesome goal, and I 100% support you. However, I recommend you reframe this to “I want to rebuild my life, and part of it is becoming the type of man who is confident in his ability to get a girlfriend.” Because when your goal is just “get a girlfriend”, you can end up with someone who isn’t a good match for you just because that was your goal. And if you don’t feel confident that you can get another girlfriend, it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking “well, she’s good enough, it’s not like I could do any better” or “I don’t like it when she does that, but I better not say anything or she’ll leave.”
I don’t think there is anything wrong with having a small circle of close friends. I’m not recommending, like, trying to get 100k followers on IG and calling them all friends or some shit. But the “when I do have them” part is concerning. If you only have 3 people you consider friends, but none of them are that close and you periodically lose them, then you have a very shaky social support system. What you should aim for is having a small circle of really close, really supportive friends who you are fairly certain will not ditch you. But no one just shows up in your life and immediately becomes a close confidant - you meet acquaintances, then those acquaintances become loose friends, then regular friends, then close friends. At each stage, most people in each level will not make it to the next level for whatever reason. Meanwhile, your small circle of close friends will often shrink for one reason or another - hopefully for good reasons, like a friend getting their dream job on the other side of the country. But that means in order to maintain your strong social support system, you need to always be feeding your friendship pipeline. If this sounds Machiavellian, I can assure you that in practice, it isn’t. It just looks like doing things like what you are already doing, like going to meetups, meeting new people, spending more time with people you like, not spending time with those you don’t, and becoming comfortable opening up emotionally to the people you like the most.
I will say that if you have never used a girlfriend as an emotional dumpster, then you probably will soon. It’s kind of just an inevitable part of the process of becoming a more dateable man. You have a bunch of pent up shit, and then you end up finally feeling close enough to someone to open up, and then it ALL comes out. Therapy can be helpful, but isn’t really the same as dumping all your shit on someone you know. I’ll also say that if you aren’t talking to people in your life about your worst shit, you aren’t really making the progress towards emotional openness that you need to form good relationships long term. Your eventual goal should be to have a solid group of friends you can talk about your deep shit with, plus a therapist, plus a girlfriend. That’s called redundancy.
Well I do have friends, and yes they are pretty solid. Not many, but I guess maybe I already have that handled? I guess I misworded my statement there.
However they aren’t the type of friends you meet girls through. Like I said, I am autistic and all my friends are neurodivergent in some way. One of them was married, had kids, divorced, got engaged, broke up, and is currently single, the other hasn’t had a girlfriend for a long time, but he does have his own fairly active social life and is very active in the autism community… and I am actually kinda surprised he doesn’t have a girlfriend since he does associate with a lot of people with cool artistic lifestyles (and he himself is fairly artistic). I know a few other people, even if I don’t see them regularly, I am in contact with them.
So finding a girl will have to be a solitary activity like everything else I do. Not that that is a bad thing, and I am sure there are plenty of introverted girls who would be fine with everything. I am not looking for some party gal, I am not compatible with them. Also I am not looking for one-night stands. As much as I said in the past that I wonder what it would be like to bone new girls regularly, I seriously doubt it would be satisfying in both the short-term and long-term.
I should mention that… yes, I did go to gang-bangs and orgies. Most of my sex partners were through there, and I did get compliments from the girls many times (legit ones). However that is when I realized that impersonal sex is not something I want to do. Not to say I wouldn’t go to one of those again, but the groups that organized them appear to be defunct now.
BTW, those groups are the way I learned I had a big dick. When I was with my first ‘girlfriend’ (and she is one reason why I still have many sexual hang ups. The story of my first sexual experience ever is… not pleasant. Like even many PUAs who had sex with a parade of partners said they would have given up women and sex if they had an experience like that) the condom seemed to break a lot. I didn’t ejaculate, not even precum, so no pregnancy risk… but I didn’t understand it.
Turns out? Well, I needed magnum condoms. Magnum XL condoms are more comfortable. I know this is a TMI situation, but I am not doing it as a brag or anything, but this was a practical concern. I would not have sex without a condom, and I have never wanted children, so the condoms stay on for obvious reasons…
But my experience with that girl will mean that going forward, even if I might be getting sexual with a girl, I need to make sure that we are compatible to be with one another for a while first, otherwise I am not proceeding.
Maybe I misworded that statement of mine, too. If you mean not opening up about stuff previously, then… well no, we all gotta know about one another’s pasts. My last girl frequently talked to me about her past (but me being 33 and her being 19 at the time kinda meant she was talking about her very recent childhood, which felt weird at first, but I realize that that is all she knew at that time), and I did mention my stuff. Her insight into it really did help me rethink a lot of stuff, which is why having a girlfriend is an important part of getting better, and not just ‘get better and get the girl’ it is ‘get better and gets girls while you are doing it, because they are part of the process’.