Traditionally, churches and other religious institutions, have been good at building community and programs that benefit the less fortunate among us. You know, the whole “love your neighbor as yourself” thing.
More and more, though, it has devolved into not much more than political extremism and often hateful rhetoric and even calls to physical violence.
I don’t think that is new. It’s true that it helps. But religions have always been involved in war. Up until 200 years ago the Pope was the most powerful person on the planet for at least 1000 years.
In all seriousness, community is the biggest benefit of religion, and the reason I’m ok with it existing in modern society. The idealized church (and these do still exist in smaller churches) is a safe place for people to come, not be judged, and find acceptance and support.
A friend of mine goes to a church like this, and honestly sometimes I’m jealous. I’m as atheist as they come in my personal beliefs, but hearing all the actually cool stuff they do to support their members is really cool. I don’t agree with their religion, but they’re practicing it right as far as I’m concerned.
Religion should absolutely be either personal or small community, though. As soon as you have states using it as justification for violence, that religion has stopped being useful or acceptable.
Agreed, it’s mostly community as far as personal benefits. We had a friend group through it that fell apart recently and my wife wants to go back to church only for the community.
Outreach is mostly a guise in my opinion, a show that’s put on to make the congregation think their money is being used wisely. I have a lot of disdain for organized religion though, having grown up in it and painfully “deconstructing” a couple years ago. I can’t step foot in a church ever again (minus a wedding).
Yeah, for sure there’s some scummy stuff churches can do with money. Again, that’s not EVERY church, and the bigger it gets, the more likely the preacher has a supercar. Some have actual accountability, and actually spend the money helping congregation, but it can take some looking to find them, and unfortunately they’re overshadowed by the Joel Olstein style mega churches.
Religion can give a framework of morality when people lack one. There’s, of course, secular justifications for morality, but in times of hardship and despair, some could find it incredibly difficult to see a humanist perspective as justified, e.g. it’s other people who create hardships for people, so why should I be good to others when they won’t be good to me?
Religion can fill in that gap. The assumption of a benevolent omnipotence can inspire people to help others when it seems pointless and ineffective to do so. There’s a quote attributed to Rabbi Tarfon in the Pirkei Avot, “It is not up to you to finish the task, but you are not free to avoid it.” that has personally helped me a great deal to remember to work hard to do good and help others, even in a small way, when it seems I can have no effect on a great injustice.
Religion can also give structure and guidance to life when things fall apart. Jewish tradition, ritual, and holidays in particular can be quite grounding in hard times. To give another example, during the pandemic, many people lost their daily, weekly, monthly, routines. I, personally, found it very grounding and calming to observe the rituals of my ancestors, if for nothing else to mark the passage of time, but also as a reminder to take time in your life to slow down and refocus yourself.
Another poster mentioned the benefit of community religion can provide, so I won’t.
The danger comes in when ritual, tradition and faith turn into ardent dogmatic following, zealotry. When people use these tools for finding morality and peace in our lives and with others as justification for horror and malice, they lose sight of these benefits and worsen the world around us at great harm to our fellow humans and ourselves. Something capable of doing great good is twisted and weaponized for political purposes and the darkest of human desires.
Religion works best when we separate doctrine from strict action and reflect on the intent of tradition and law and use them to inspire us to make the world a better place for all people.
What’s going on now feels very much an example of this horrendous zealotry. I cannot see how these actions help us be better stewards of the planet, how they help heal the world or accomplish anything we should aspire to. It’s heartwrenching to see demagogues pervert faith into casus beli for political and military victory.
Religion isn’t unique in the way it gets twisted for vile actions, there are many, many secular ideologies that this happens with, as well, in blatant and subtle ways. But I understand how it can feel especially bitter when something rhetorically benevolent gets used so horrendously.
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Traditionally, churches and other religious institutions, have been good at building community and programs that benefit the less fortunate among us. You know, the whole “love your neighbor as yourself” thing.
More and more, though, it has devolved into not much more than political extremism and often hateful rhetoric and even calls to physical violence.
I don’t think that is new. It’s true that it helps. But religions have always been involved in war. Up until 200 years ago the Pope was the most powerful person on the planet for at least 1000 years.
Right. Religious institutions have definitely never been all good.
Don’t forget the crusades.
religion has always been a cancer in society for weak minds to feel solace in their life
In all seriousness, community is the biggest benefit of religion, and the reason I’m ok with it existing in modern society. The idealized church (and these do still exist in smaller churches) is a safe place for people to come, not be judged, and find acceptance and support.
A friend of mine goes to a church like this, and honestly sometimes I’m jealous. I’m as atheist as they come in my personal beliefs, but hearing all the actually cool stuff they do to support their members is really cool. I don’t agree with their religion, but they’re practicing it right as far as I’m concerned.
Religion should absolutely be either personal or small community, though. As soon as you have states using it as justification for violence, that religion has stopped being useful or acceptable.
Agreed, it’s mostly community as far as personal benefits. We had a friend group through it that fell apart recently and my wife wants to go back to church only for the community.
Outreach is mostly a guise in my opinion, a show that’s put on to make the congregation think their money is being used wisely. I have a lot of disdain for organized religion though, having grown up in it and painfully “deconstructing” a couple years ago. I can’t step foot in a church ever again (minus a wedding).
Yeah, for sure there’s some scummy stuff churches can do with money. Again, that’s not EVERY church, and the bigger it gets, the more likely the preacher has a supercar. Some have actual accountability, and actually spend the money helping congregation, but it can take some looking to find them, and unfortunately they’re overshadowed by the Joel Olstein style mega churches.
Religion can give a framework of morality when people lack one. There’s, of course, secular justifications for morality, but in times of hardship and despair, some could find it incredibly difficult to see a humanist perspective as justified, e.g. it’s other people who create hardships for people, so why should I be good to others when they won’t be good to me?
Religion can fill in that gap. The assumption of a benevolent omnipotence can inspire people to help others when it seems pointless and ineffective to do so. There’s a quote attributed to Rabbi Tarfon in the Pirkei Avot, “It is not up to you to finish the task, but you are not free to avoid it.” that has personally helped me a great deal to remember to work hard to do good and help others, even in a small way, when it seems I can have no effect on a great injustice.
Religion can also give structure and guidance to life when things fall apart. Jewish tradition, ritual, and holidays in particular can be quite grounding in hard times. To give another example, during the pandemic, many people lost their daily, weekly, monthly, routines. I, personally, found it very grounding and calming to observe the rituals of my ancestors, if for nothing else to mark the passage of time, but also as a reminder to take time in your life to slow down and refocus yourself.
Another poster mentioned the benefit of community religion can provide, so I won’t.
The danger comes in when ritual, tradition and faith turn into ardent dogmatic following, zealotry. When people use these tools for finding morality and peace in our lives and with others as justification for horror and malice, they lose sight of these benefits and worsen the world around us at great harm to our fellow humans and ourselves. Something capable of doing great good is twisted and weaponized for political purposes and the darkest of human desires.
Religion works best when we separate doctrine from strict action and reflect on the intent of tradition and law and use them to inspire us to make the world a better place for all people.
What’s going on now feels very much an example of this horrendous zealotry. I cannot see how these actions help us be better stewards of the planet, how they help heal the world or accomplish anything we should aspire to. It’s heartwrenching to see demagogues pervert faith into casus beli for political and military victory.
Religion isn’t unique in the way it gets twisted for vile actions, there are many, many secular ideologies that this happens with, as well, in blatant and subtle ways. But I understand how it can feel especially bitter when something rhetorically benevolent gets used so horrendously.
It gives some people a lot of comfort.
Pope hats are kinda cool.