- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
Israel’s military suggested on Tuesday that the United Nations ask Hamas for fuel supplies after the U.N. agency providing aid to Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip warned it would have to halt operations on Wednesday night if no fuel was delivered.
The agency, known as UNRWA, posted its warning on social media on Tuesday. The Israel Defense Forces reposted it and said that Hamas militants have more than 500,000 litres of fuel in tanks inside besieged Gaza.
“Ask Hamas if you can have some,” the IDF wrote.
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I have to say, Israelis are pretty good at cutting down my empathy towards them.
And then they turn around and ask for funds/resources from the US.
No asking required, Biden promised ‘unconditional support’. It’s a blank cheque and they couldn’t even write “not for genocide” on it.
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It seems like they may be getting advice from Elon on how to piss off everyone.
And what happens if UNWRA does just that? Then they’ll be shamed and accused of working with a terrorist organization. It’s a no-win situation.
The reply should be, “Who should we be working with to draw equitable borders to ensure security? We’re not just asking for supplies, we’re forging local alliances to work on future solutions. “
Yeah, SHAME or CRITIQUE is really something UNRWA should not accept, to help the people it was created for.
Do let me get this straight: It is Israel’s responsibility to let even more fuel into the Gaza Strip, so it can be added to the vast amounts that Hamas already has, but it is not the responsibility of Hamas to provide the Hospitals with fuels from those vast storages?
Not many days ago, Hamas stole large quantities of fuel from the UN, too.
I feel for the civilians caught in the middle. Now is not the time to be hard headed about asking a terrorist group to do what’s right. Obviously they don’t care and the civilians are being punished too. Being callous about their suffering doesn’t solve the situation… it just feeds into the terrorist narrative.
Sorry, “now is not the time”? When is the time, then?
When Palestinians aren’t being ethnically cleansed, would be a good start.
They aren’t being ethnically cleansed, but I still don’t think it’s a good time.
Idk the forcible expulsion of millions of people from their ancestral home seems to fit the definition.
They not only aren’t expelled, they literally cannot leave because no one will take them in.
What? Israel has actively stated Gaza’s territory would go down after the war, and there are honest to God pogroms going on right now in the West Bank (as if settlement wasn’t already ethnic cleansing enough).
It sure sounds like you’re holding Israel and a terrorist organization to the same standard. Nobody expects terrorist organizations to be concerned about human rights. Most of us still expect democratic states to… even if they don’t always live up to it.
I continue to be amazed that Israel’s “supporters” hold them in such low esteem…“Why should they be better than terrorists?” Because, if If we can’t expect Israel’s government to be better than Hamas, then what reason do we have to support them?
Ask Hamas… also, get within 6 blocks of Hamas, and we’ll probably kill you. Given a little time, we’ll probably kill you anyway.
Israel have the motivation and means to commit a genocide. Hamas terrorism was always going to be the pretext, it was just a question of when. Meanwhile, the civilians all get fucked - though not remotely equally.
What absolute pieces of shit.
Hamas? yeah
can’t get lower than shooting rockets from next to hospitals, schools, etc, forbidding people to leave because you know you’d be exposed without them as shields and still pinning every casualty for your behaviour on the country that you just slaughtered hundreds of people of without any reason other than to provoke
You know, since you’re very knowledgeable about Hamas can you answer a question for me?
I’m West Bank, where there’s no Hamas presence, Palestinians are still getting killed by the IDF. Can you tell me the reason?
Wow, that’s cartoonishly evil. It’s like they held an internal contest on the “Most horrible thing we could say in response”.
Almost as evil as Hamas sitting on a huge amount of money in Quatar and lots of oil but instead of supporting the people in Gaza they prefer using them as human shields and letting them suffer without any support and try to pin the suffering on Israel for not letting them slaughter civilians without realiation…
Yeah, dick thing to say but Israel is literally saying to ask your apparent government to provide for their people from their own stock.
What else are they going to use it for, and is that more important than their citizens?
Israel is literally saying to ask your apparent government to provide for their people from their own stock.
Israel is also not allowing aid to Gaza. It’s also Israel that created a Gaza that can’t even provide electricity for itself. Not saying Hamas shouldn’t use their stock for the sake of Gazans (if they have that much; this is still the IDF and they’re not known for caring about the truth), but the reason Gaza is in this situation is still Israel.
In the short term, yes it is caused by Israel. You could also argue it was caused when Palestine and friends invaded Israel in the middle of a Civil War and lost, losing territory in the process.
Long term, this is something like 1500 years in the making.
The people running Israel right now are literally Nazi-allied legacies. When you realize who and how it is perfectly in character.
Hamas is literally the government in Gaza. It’s not a joke so much as them sugg sting that they rely on their government for it’s specific purpose.
Hamas has stockpiled reserves of supplies, but they keep them from the citizens. This isn’t even counting their money, which could be used to provide aid for their citizens instead of wealth and weapons for themselves.
I think this is the key thing that makes me side with Israel. There is soo much “Israel this, illegal blockade that” when the literal Palestinian government has things they are holding from their citizens. That is an internal government decision.
Hamas is, at the end of the day, an organization dedicated to making martyrs of their people first and providing for them second.
This isn’t speculation or opinion - this is their official stance
I love how easy it is for you to be onkwith this because you’ve been told they do in fact have a government. But they don’t. Not really. A 45 square km patch, 2M total pop, with 50% being literal kids.
But yes they’re just as organized ,capable and sustained as other large western nations. They must be bombed, surely!
They do literally have a government. Did you really think they don’t? They even had elections until Hamas stopped those.
I mean, yes, Gaza was part of a sort of but not really a state (more of a Bantustan really) at the time. Now it’s an actual, honest to God ghetto.
Yeah man we had elections at my high school too, they really amounted to a lot.
I’m glad Hamas wasn’t in your high school, canceling elections.
If you think Gaza doesn’t have a government then you are just factually incorrect and idk what else to tell you.
It’s like if you came on here and acted confidently aloof about saying that Mars is blue. You’re just wrong on a very basic level.
Sounds like the kind of place that needs another country to come in before they get radicalized and do something stupid.
I am not surprised at this response from Israel in the slightest. After all, they are no better than Hamas.
Both like to slaughter innocent civilians. shrugs
Most moral army my middle fucking nut. Fully happy to genocide all Palestinians because of the actions of terrorists funded by Israel
A Napoleonic era artillery barrages could flatten Gaza in a couple of weeks. They’re clearly not attempting to genocide all Gazans. To believe that requirea the belief that the IDF is the most incompetent military force to ever walk the planet.
They’re not attempting to kill them all, but 1.4 million people have been displaced. And they want them to flee northern Gaza, and historically land in these cases is not returned to Palestinians.
That’s a fair concern. But this happened in 2008, 2012 and 2014 where mass amounts of Gazan were told to flee certain areas (granted not this massive) and after their ground operations Israel retreated back across the border.
I would argue this is still genocide, just not at a rapid rate:
2.2 million people are unable to access a consistent supply of food!
And that’s the fault of their government who started a war. In no other conflict, has there been the expectation that in a war between parties A and B, that A feed, clothe and care for the civilians in party Bs territory that party B militarily controls.
2.2 million people are unable to access a consistent supply of food!
And that is the fault of Hamas for not properly preparing for this war they started. They had the initiative, they could have stockpiled the basic goods it’s civilians would need. They chose not to.
- Iran
And Israel. Israel funded Hamas in the past to weaken the peace-seeking PLO. And even now they allow foreign money to reach them. Can’t have your boogieman going broke.
the peace-seeking PLO
Lol gonna need you to cite this one because the PLO has denied every single peace deal Israel has offered, including multiple 2 state solutions
How so? The Oslo accords were called off by Israel. And the failure of peace talks in 2014 was confirmed by the US special envoy to be 100% Israel’s fault. Camp David is a matter of debate and nobody really knows what happened in 2008 so I won’t comment on those, but by my count that makes 2 times where Israel refused peace.
Nothing in your post is citation, and all of it is made up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords
As for 08
Hamas and Hezbollah, however threatened violence, especially if either side seemed likely to compromise in order to reach an agreement. As a result, the Israeli government publicly stated that peace couldn’t exist even if both sides signed the agreement, due to the stance taken by Hamas and Hezbollah
Some light reading:
Nothing in your post is citation, and all of it is made up.
Lmfao. It was Netenyahu that stopped negotiations when he was elected in 1996.
Also it literally says in the article you sent: “Both sides claim the other dropped follow-up contacts”.
The quote you’re using is from the 2010-2011 peace talks. The reason those broke down is as follows:
Direct talks broke down in late September 2010 when an Israeli partial moratorium on settlement construction in the West Bank expired and Netanyahu refused to extend the freeze unless the Palestinian Authority recognized Israel as a Jewish State, while the Palestinian leadership refused to continue negotiating unless Israel extended the moratorium.[3] The proposal was rejected by the Palestinian leadership, that stressed that the topic on the Jewishness of the state has nothing to do with the building freeze. The decision of Netanyahu on the freeze was criticized by European countries and the United States.
In regards to Oslo and the 2014 peace talks:
2014:
A deadline was set for establishing a broad outline for an agreement by 29 April 2014. On the expiry of the deadline, negotiations collapsed, with the US Special Envoy Indyk reportedly assigning blame mainly to Israel, while the US State Department insisting no one side was to blame but that “both sides did things that were incredibly unhelpful.”
Oslo: Both Oslo accords were signed, however,
the interim process put in place under Oslo had fulfilled neither Israeli nor Palestinian expectations.
This led to the Camp David Accords where the main issues and points seemed to be the following:
the refusal of the Palestinians and Arafat to give up the right of return
Judged from the perspective of Palestinians’ and Israelis’ respective rights under international law, all the concessions at Camp David came from the Palestinian side, none from the Israeli side.
the Palestinians starting position was at the 1967 borders, but they were ready to give up Jewish neighborhoods in East Jerusalem, and parts of the West Bank with Israeli settlements. Further, the Palestinians were willing to implement Right of Return in a way that guaranteed Israel’s demographic interests.
The proposals were, for the most part, verbal. As no agreement was reached and there is no official written record of the proposals, some ambiguity remains over details of the positions of the parties on specific issues.
The talks ultimately failed to reach agreement on the final status issues: Territory, Territorial contiguity, Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, Refugees and Palestinian right of return, Security arrangements, Settlements
To summarize the 2010-11 peace talks broke down due to Israel not abiding by the terms of the negotiation. The 2014 talks are debated with more blame seeming to be placed on Israel. The Oslo accords were signed but left unresolved and unfollowed by Israel leading to the camp David accords where the main issue seems to be the right of return for the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were displaced. However, who actually ended the talks is still debated.
While you actually knowing the events is great, your analysis is really flawed by your biases.
Palestinians have nothing to bargain with. Refusing to even recognize Israel’s statehood is a non-starter. It’s essentially just a giant “fuck off” sign
Source of where Israel funded Hamas?
When Israel first encountered Islamists in Gaza in the 1970s and '80s, they seemed focused on studying the Quran, not on confrontation with Israel. The Israeli government officially recognized a precursor to Hamas called Mujama Al-Islamiya, registering the group as a charity. It allowed Mujama members to set up an Islamic university and build mosques, clubs and schools.
Only a mistake in hindsight though
Not really, since they kept at it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Oh I’m not including Netanyahu’s govt in this. They definitely tried to divide and conquer with predictable results.
Your source is one retired, self-acclaimed ex-military of Israel who has no proof but just says it is so?
Seriously, do all the claims of Israel funding Hamas go back to this one person?
Not much left before they say out loud what they really think: everyone beyond the wall we built is in fact, hamas. Easier to bomb once put in the same bzg
Disclamer! don’t look for hidden meaning, I’m honestly currious. Why isn’t Gaza supplied by sea yet ? Are those waters too shallow or something ? Iran and other Hammas allies could send them fuel, food etc by sea.
Also why are they digging those tunnels , can’t the supplies be brought through as well ?Why isn’t Gaza supplied by sea yet
You’d have to shoot your way through the Israeli navy. And they have German submarines so, basically, forget it: They can shoot at you while you can’t even see them. Ask US carrier group admirals about their experiences with those subs in training manoeuvres.
Also why are they digging those tunnels , can’t the supplies be brought through as well ?
The tunnels are Hamas-controlled and supplying Hamas isn’t exactly the goal of the UN.
The tunnels are Hamas-controlled and supplying Hamas isn’t exactly the goal of the UN.
I meant basic supplies for civilians. Obviously UN won’t supply Hammas but Hammas says they are the just guys so they could open the tunnel or two for UN.
You’d have to shoot your way through the Israeli navy.
I meant basic supplies for civilians which could go under UN flag. I admit that mentioning Iran etc was missleading into military support. I somehow doubt that US, Nato or even Israeli navy would sink aNY ship that has blue helmets on the board on humanitarian mission.
Ask US carrier group admirals about their experiences with those subs in training manoeuvres.
more info pls
There have been multiple war games where German and Swedish subs on the “enemy” team have popped up within a few hundred metres of a US carrier, snapped a picture (which could have been a torpedo launch) and escaped again without being detected.
any links to these? sound fun
Gah can’t find good English articles they’re all talking about France or Sweden doing the same, but have a German one. And that’s referring to Type 206 submarines who sneak on battery power instead of hydrogen, Israel’s Dolphins are essentially a bit bigger Type 212s.
It’s basically become a sport by now for NATO submarine crews to “sink” US carriers in exercises, kind of like a rite of passage for any new sub.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
UNITED NATIONS, Oct 24 (Reuters) - Twenty trucks were unable to transport aid to Palestinian civilians in the besieged Gaza Strip on Tuesday, the United Nations said as U.S. President Joe Biden dubbed humanitarian efforts to deliver help via a crossing from Egypt as “not fast enough.”
“We hope the materials can enter Gaza tomorrow,” said U.N. aid spokesperson Eri Kaneko.
It has become the focus of efforts to deliver aid since Israel imposed a “total siege” of the enclave in retaliation for an attack by Hamas militants on Oct. 7.
Senior U.N. aid official Lynn Hastings had earlier told the Security Council that 20 trucks were due to cross on Tuesday.
White House national security spokesman John Kirby on Tuesday described Israel’s concerns as legitimate.
The U.N. agency providing aid to Palestinians in Gaza, UNRWA, warned on Tuesday that it would have to halt its operations on Wednesday night if there were no fuel deliveries.
The original article contains 385 words, the summary contains 156 words. Saved 59%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
The UN should revoke Israel’s founding charter, they’ve gone rogue and need to be brought to heel.
Why are we writing ‘Defence’ without the air-quotes?
Because Reuters tries to maintain factual and neutral reporting of information. And the Israeli defense forces do not put quotes in their own name
