cross-posted from: https://linux.community/post/3497784
Example: several of my former coworkers are from Mexico, Peru and Argentina, meaning they share Spanish as a common language.
I used to practice Spanish with them, but my last charge (like a ward’s manager) would yell at us to stop it, use English only. She would get very angry really fast if she heard anything in a language she didn’t understand.
I find it stupid, because some of them would use Spanish to better explain to the new nurses how to do certain procedures, but maybe I’m missing something?
Racist, and a way for management to know if workers are discussing unionization.
Not always, it’s also a politeness thing, it depends on context
I don’t agree. Forcing people to use a language they are less comfortable with just so others can eavesdrop has nothing to do with “politeness.”
I think you should have asked what context was being referred to.
I can’t really imagine a context where it would be a politeness thing unless the English-only speaker was actively involved in the conversation but was being intentionally shut-out, and not because it was easier to convey in non-English languages but deliberately for spite.
I can’t really imagine a context except for this very common context which completely negates my point
Well said!
It isn’t the context brought up in the post body, so no, it doesn’t completely negate my point. The post is talking about banning any and all use of spanish, period, and the other user came in trying to talk about a different situation entirely.
It’s not eavesdropping lol. I worked a company that was primarily Chinese people at the head office and they made a rule of speaking in English for inclusivity.
The post references any usage of spanish as bannable. There’s a difference between workers speaking spanish with each other while someone who only speaks English is present, and workers speaking spanish with each other when nobody else is involved with the conversation. I also worked at a company with a huge portion of speakers that were uncomfortable with speaking English despite myself only speaking English, any attempt to ban their language would hurt the company.
Right? Hence context
You mean, what you ignored?
I am directly replying to the context listed out by the user, which in this case seems to be racist and anti-worker.
And I am directly replying to you saying there is context and I specifically said not always
Preserving “politeness” is the same tactic they use to keep workers from discussing their pay with each other, which is also deeply anti-labor.
Sure, I won’t disagree that it’s anti labour, but being polite to and around your co workers is important
You can tell it’s not that cuz of how quick the person got angry. If it’s remarkable enough to seem strange, there’s a reason.
Why do you care about what I do if I’m not talking you? If talking a different language seems impolite to you and you’re not the one talking, who the fuck cares? That’s a you problem.
Sure you’re allowed to be ass, that’s also a you problem lol
I was always told it’s a bit rude to use a language that not everyone present understands, since you’re basically excluding people from the conversation. Your example seems a bit silly though.
Talking to a person excludes all others by default. If I’m talking to you I’m not talking to the guy behind me. What does the guy behind me care what language we’re using? And why should I care about the one I’m NOT talking to.
Hallway chat is the reason people come to the office.
It’s impossible to take part if people use a language you don’t know.
I thought people came to work because they needed the money, lol. And, yes, it’s impossible, and perhaps they don’t wanna include me in the conversation… am I supposed to force them?
Offense: “a bit rude”
Punishment: no job, bad references, no health insurance
What’s funny is no charge nurse is capable of getting you to the point of getting fired over this shit. They’re just capable of making you want to quit. Management does not like spending money orienting new nurses.
Same. English is my second language but I still make sure to speak english even if talking to someone from my country if there is someone who doesn’t speak portuguese nearby
It seems like a combination of racism (I bet they wouldn’t get worked up over two Norwegians communicating in their native language) and petty managerial tyranny.
I live somewhere where French is prevalent but there’s also an important English community.
When people are speaking in English on break there’s normally no problem … but ! If you speak Arab, Spanish or even Creole on your break you’ll probably lived exactly the same thing you experienced.
My point is … racism, pernicious racism and control
Fucking stupid. The Haitians didn’t speak English and we needed our bilingual guy to speak Spanish sometimes or else we wouldn’t get shit done. Oh also the boss’s English was shit too and sometimes him and the others from the country our company was from needed to communicate clearly
Honestly, time to talk to HR who I’m sure would have a quiet word with this manager.
This sounds like bullying, triggered by racism/xenophia/paranoia or just plain bigotry. And yelling at people? That’s terrible too.
I think it makes sense to have a common language among all of the staff that is spoken whenever business is being discussed, in meetings and things like that.
I think that policing private conversations is kind of weird. I don’t know why they would do that.
If you’re scared of another language it just means you’re a puta gordo
50+ Caucasian cis male multinational tech company middle manager here.
I speak Spanish on work zooms, when everyone else is in Mexico.
TBH I do it because I try to avoid being the asshole boss who everyone else has to accommodate, and instead be the pluralistic, humble boss that shows appropriate deference and respect to the employees that actually do the work.
I think it’s mostly stupid and ethically questionable, except when your speech needs to be evaluated as a routine part of the job. I don’t think worker to worker conversations should be impacted though.
Sounds like that wasn’t your employer, that was your manager. I’d take that to the employer and ask if this rule is authorized, because it seems like a huge overstep on your manager’s part.
I had a bilingual coworker that, after a customer came with a complaint, would turn to me and say “this asshole can suck my dick” in spanish and i would just nod thoughtfully like some important piece of information was given to troubleshoot with.
Shit was so funny. Very rude but i still laugh at that.
Ive never had coworkers talking meaninggully behind someones back in another language, and yeah thats rude too.
I have been the only people talking english somewhere and i felt rude for that.
Whether any of this rudeness justfies work place punishment or should or shouldnt be allowed just depends on the job.
That’s extremely risky, a TON of people speak Spanish, including a bunch who you would assume did not by surface-level appearance. Your coworker got really lucky that they didn’t get caught and called out.
Time and place. The hours sucked, the system we supported was worse, and we made sure it worked regardless. Place was lowkey toxic but in a comradery kind of way. I agree though. Assuming people dont know, especially cuss words, is asking for it lol
I wasn’t directly involved in these situations but I have heard 2 different close secondhand stories where non English was banned. because to the ears of English - speaking people it sounded like the non English were using slurs or talking about certain English speakers in a way that would be considered inappropriate.
In both cases the complaints were made by black people. I think there can be complexity here
- in a lot of languages the normal word for black sounds like the n-word in English. It really sticks out even if some is saying “can you pass me the black marker” or other innocent and non hostile comment
- in a lot of languages there are using words that do in fact have racist overtones in that language. But the specific speakers in question may not care, may be racist, or may have insufficiently interrogated their use.
- Or frankly the sense that racialized people were being talked about covertly could have been correct.
- When it’s people just complaining that they can’t what conversations are happening around them (that they are not involved in) or white people feeling that they are being persecuted I have very little sympathy.
Even in a complex situation the banning of languages is unlikely the correct choice. Ideally workers could have a conversation to decide on etiquette.
Employers should mind their own business. The only people who have a problem with people speaking other languages in personal conversation are control freaks who think they have the right to know what everyone is saying all the time. The person I’m talking to understands that language, therefore I’m accomplishing my goal of communication with the sounds I’m making. Why do you care?
I mean, foreign languages can and sometimes are used to talk shit about people without them knowing. Speaking English in a non-English place is rude for that reason as well, to make it less bait-y.
If even brief, well-explained excursions into Spanish are punished, that’s ideology or personal paranoia, though.
I don’t understand why English speaker’s imaginary fears of being “shit talked” outweigh the comfort of a Spanish speaker using their mother tongue? I don’t understand how English speakers having anxiety translates into Spanish speakers being rude? It sounds like a personal psychological problem certain English speakers project onto people who speak other language; if it’s not prejudice I’m having trouble seeing the difference
Charge nurses and power tripping, name a more iconic duo.
