- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
Israeli officials say that everywhere Hamas terrorists struck — the rave, the military bases along the Gaza border and the kibbutzim — they brutalized women.
A two-month investigation by The Times uncovered painful new details, establishing that the attacks against women were not isolated events but part of a broader pattern of gender-based violence on Oct. 7.
Relying on video footage, photographs, GPS data from mobile phones and interviews with more than 150 people, including witnesses, medical personnel, soldiers and rape counselors, The Times identified at least seven locations where Israeli women and girls appear to have been sexually assaulted or mutilated.
Four witnesses described in graphic detail seeing women raped and killed at two different places along Route 232, the same highway where Ms. Abdush’s half-naked body was found sprawled on the road at a third location.
And The Times interviewed several soldiers and volunteer medics who together described finding more than 30 bodies of women and girls in and around the rave site and in two kibbutzim in a similar state as Ms. Abdush’s — legs spread, clothes torn off, signs of abuse in their genital areas.
Many of the accounts are difficult to bear, and the visual evidence is disturbing to see.
The Times viewed photographs of one woman’s corpse that emergency responders discovered in the rubble of a besieged kibbutz with dozens of nails driven into her thighs and groin.
The Times also viewed a video, provided by the Israeli military, showing two dead Israeli soldiers at a base near Gaza who appeared to have been shot directly in their vaginas.
This article is straight up IDF propaganda and should be removed.
No video evidence of any rape. No pictures are provided. No rape kits nothing. Just “anonymous witnesses said”. This article is a lie and TimesOfIsrael should be banned for it.
I want to remind everyone that in the secret journalist footage video of the “worst Hamas crimes on Oct 7” not a single instance of any rape being committed was found on CCTV nor Hamas GoPros this was confirmed by Journalists that saw the video.
https://youtu.be/mc5iG3DX7ho
Good thing the IDF refused to use rape kits when the entire world was calling for them to do so right after Oct 7.
Are these credible witnesses the same guys that assured Biden about the 40 beheaded babies? Because israeli “witnesses” seem to testify whatever IDF propaganda they read on social media.
You should check out this piece: https://theintercept.com/2023/12/24/feminism-sexual-violence-hamas-israel/
It is possible to acknowledge the sexual violence and mutilation carried out by Hamas, condemn those that use the fact as propaganda to legitimize further violent, and still acknowledge the suffering of Palestinians and support a free Palestine.
Many people seem to be unable or unwilling to confront the cognitive dissonance of there not being a good guy to root for. They have to deny some war crimes to make things simple for themselves, so it’s a simple case of good vs evil
It’s difficult for people to accept that someone going to war against the bad guys can also be the bad guys
Proof?
https://forward.com/fast-forward/569283/rape-kits-forensic-evidence-oct-7-times-of-israel/
Proof?
Whether it’s true or not, I’ve seen genocide apologists try to shift the discussion to rape to cover for the crimes of israel.
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I’m not on the side of hamas. I’m merely noting that genocide apologists are demanding that the conversation focus on things other than the 22,000+ Palestinians killed. From the ramping up of the genocide I’ve just heard “but what about october 7th?!?!?!??!” to justify everything that continues to happen to this day.
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All I’m saying is that I’m seeing a lot of downplaying of the genocide that is currently happening in Palestine by people trying to change the focus, but sure, great job "All Lives Matter"ing this.
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“This is probably propaganda from the IDF”
“These videos from Hamas show no rapes happened, therefore none occurred”
You need to apply the standard equally. And also recognize that YouTube links are about the least credible source possible.
What video from Hamas? Did you click the video I linked? You clearly didn’t because it couldn’t be as credible as a Zionist propaganda outlets like the Time Of Israel.
The videos from the IDF show that no rape occurred. Not from Hamas.
The IDF is the party that needs to provide evidence of their accusation. I’m not sure why you are even bringing up Hamas. Hamas denying anything is irrelevant if the IDF would provide proof. The small problem is that there is no proof which means that it didn’t happen.
Look, you may believe the New York Times carries water for Israel, but you do no favors by calling it “The Time of Israel”. Especially since the Times of Israel is its own publication I believe.
Over the course of my education I took some classes on journalism, and the NYT was the gold standard. Does that mean I believe them unquestionably? No, but they’ve built up a reputation for honest reporting, and when they fail to do so – like with Iraq – they openly own up to it. That said, I have far more scrutiny with this conflict.
So yes, a random YouTube channel is less credible. You should also know better than to leave video links in a discussion about rape without explicitly saying if the video has triggers or not. I would not like to see a rape, and so I don’t trust mysterious video links. A leftist should understand that very well.
You said these were CC videos of Hamas and GoPro footage. I think you can understand why I thought they were from Hamas, and in a way, they are. I take it they were recovered by the IDF and then presented?
When a woman says she’s raped, I believe her. When there’s uncertainty, I believe her claim is in good faith but I want to know about investigations into it. It’s disappointing to see how quickly you assume these women are lying because it inconveniences your political beliefs. If you only believe women when it fits your narrative, you’re not a feminist. And frankly, if a leftist isn’t a feminist, then they aren’t a leftist.
Hamas clearly didn’t weaponize sexual violence as the title states. This directly proves that the article is propaganda. Hamas policy is very clearly against rape and all the female hostages that were released have confirmed to this. Surely if this was a “weaponized” tool of war every single female would have been mass raped in captivity. Instead Hamas has shown to be far more humane captors than israel.
I assume the witnesses lying because of all the insane baseless accusations that were lied about. The lying has a goal: dehumanizing Palestinians so the IDF Nazis can commit genocide. If there is no evidence it didn’t happen. The IDF lies about 40 beheaded burnt babies. Which is wayyyy worse than rape. NYT just repeats the propaganda. Just think about how bad that sounded two months ago instead of now knowing it is a lie.
40 babies. Beheaded. And then burned. The IDF is willing to lie about literally everything. Your “liberal feminism” would be just as irrelevant if Adolf Hitler made up accusations as an argument to mow down the Jews.
The attack helicopter that mowed down people at the festival. The tanks and missles shelling the Kibbutzes and the IDF then claiming that Hamas burnt those bodies while they themselves did it. assume they are lying because of all the insane baseless accusations that were lied about.
I refuse to believe any witness testimony from the israeli side when they themselves cannot provide any evidence.
Thanks for all the confirmations. It’s clear that any counterargument by me would be a waste of both of our times, so I’ll leave it here. Your comment does a wonderful job of showing your beliefs on its own.
“I am a liberal feminist so I will believe any IDF propaganda no evidence needed”
OK dude.
Don’t believe everything that makes “your side” look good and don’t doubt everything that makes it look bad, or makes your opponents look good. Apply the same standard of scrutiny.
Because everyone believes they are the hero of their tale. The Trump insurrectionists on Jan 6 in the US legitimately believed they were fighting to preserve the country. They thought they were doing a moral good, and refused to listen to anyone saying differently. Not everyone who enables and supports a fascist is aware they’re helping a fascist. They may do so unwittingly.
Always question yourself. And I am very aware this applies to my beliefs as well. I regularly question them to make sure I’m looking at the whole picture.
Don’t blindly support Hamas. They’re cruel to the Palestinians as well. They hoard supplies. They don’t hold elections and they’ve violently suppressed protest.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/hamas-violently-suppresses-gaza-economic-israeli-border-protests
Don’t enable oppressors who are fighting other oppressors. Both parties in a fight can be detestable bastards, and they can also be captors of the people they claim to represent. Blindly support one, and you hurt the people you want to help.
You don’t seem to understand. Israel has all the means necessary to provide evidence. They just don’t. Hamas had cameras on their heads. Israel is full of CCTV cameras. Not blindly accepting every claim is not the same as denying them all.
This is video of the Palestinians claiming the IDF shot a kid. From a bunch of people who are poorer and have less cameras than the israelis: https://youtu.be/1_6RjK6EXBs?t=26s
Not a single video like this can be found of Hamas shooting a child on Oct 7. Not one.
What some Hamas fighters did do was execute unarmed parents in front of their children. This was objectively bad and they should not have done that. Rape though? No evidence. If there was mass rape then surely there would be evidence.
I wouldn’t just believe the IDF bombs children’s hospitals until I saw clear video evidence of them doing it. And whaddaya know. There’s clear videos with clear evidence for the IDF bombing childrens hospitals.
I was just talking about this article yesterday. They list like seven forms of proof in a “I swear to god guys!” way
It feels like they are trying to paint those medieval pictures of devils and demons eating babies and violating people but in news form with no proof. I just want actual proof not your word on proof
The weird thing is, I thought they would finally provide at least some proof for these claims after three months but NOPE! It’s the same exact BS we read back three months ago and still without a shred of evidence!
Like what kind of “investigation” did they do? Did they open their own website from three months ago and went “hey we can get more clicks from this!”
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Look at how far the mental gymnastics go to keep believing the IDF, the worst liars in the world, on their word. I’m sure they got those pictures right to those 40 beheaded babies.
The IDF refused to use rape kits or collect any evidence after Oct7 when there were multiple organizations screaming for them to do so.
Why?
Because there was no evidence to collect. Because it didn’t happen.
You’re so deep into your conspiracy theories that you believe all the shit the rape apologists make up to defend the islamists. What a disgrace.
Baseless claims without evidence by Genocidal Nazis known to lie about everything won’t be trusted by anyone.
Hope you get banned from here soon.
I was not allowed to say it is a disgrace to be a rape apologist (comment removed), I guess this is a real great forum for you to hang around since you are able to say any lie you made up or read online without consequences.
Genocidal nazis. Wow. I bet soon you’ll claim the holocaust was faked as well.
Btw I am critical towards the racist state of Israel but here we are discussing the terror, rape and slaughter by the fascist islamist terror cowards of Hamas which you have no problem to cheer on in your black-white mindset. Maybe it’s just an internet troll game for you but we are discussing real human life and suffering here.
I would recommend Reddit r/worldnews. It is a great place to discuss and spread ZioNazi propaganda. Lemmy is more for people who aren’t straight up IDF shills.
The worst thing that at least some attackers on Oct 7 did do was execute unarmed parents in front of their children. There is video evidence of that on their GoPros
Almost all of the other really bad accusations have turned out to be baseless lies such as the 40 beheaded babies. The rape is a major one that somehow still keeps getting repeated without any evidence. Unless there is evidence provided it didn’t happen.
What insane accusations. You’re really a lost cause. I am happy not to have any such attitudes in my local refugee support and antifascist groups, history will again prove us right. No pasaran against imperialism, religion, hierarchies and racism.