• Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
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    10 months ago

    “Did that even happen?
    And if it did, was it that bad?
    And if it was, was it that big of a deal?
    And if it was, does it matter?
    And if it does, did they mean it?
    And if they did, didn’t the victims deserve it?”

    The narcissist’s prayer is no less cowardly when you phrase it in question form.

        • AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Well if 2-3 people with a label said so I should ignore the numbers, the terrorist human shield fighting style, and urban warfare’s well documented chaos.

          Why use hard numbers to come to conclusions when I can have someone tell me it is

          I like that even your source has experts disagreeing and cherry picking what equates for real genocide

          • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
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            10 months ago

            Pay attention folks: this is why fascism is anti-intellectual, because they have to deny the experts that will recognise what they’re doing and call it out for what it is.

    • Arete@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      If I said something factually wrong please correct me. Otherwise let’s leave the ad hominem attacks unsaid.

      • chaogomu@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        Well, first of all is the idea that this level of destruction is in any way normal in war.

        Take a look at this chart here. Those date ranges in the chart have some of the bloodiest conflict in each war, and yet on any given day only a handful of children would die.

        Israel is killing an average of almost 150 children per day.

        That’s why we’re calling it a genocide.

          • xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            10 months ago

            “more than normal” in this case is 1/3 of the total child deaths in 11 years in Syria, done in ONE MONTH

          • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            That’s like describing the purposeful crushing under a steam roller of a person tied up in the middle of the road and unable to escape as a “more than normal” traffic accident.

        • Arete@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Appreciate the good faith response. While I’m certainly not going to excuse thousands of dead children, I don’t find these other conflicts comparable for the following reasons:

          • these are averaged over about a decade, most of which is in the form of a “frozen” conflict between entrenched armies outside of populated areas. We might (I don’t have numbers on this) see a much higher rate if we focused in on the hottest/most urban part of each war. The “30 day” range for this conflict is widely out of step with the others. If we “froze” the conflict for a decade, we’d depress the number by 120x and it would suddenly match the others.
          • most of these did not involve significant urban conflict in populated areas, especially with an entrenched defender making use of human shields.
          • the average age in Gaza is only ~18, meaning all else being equal, child deaths will be outsized. Further, Hamas employs teenage soldiers and the provided numbers don’t make a civilian/militant distinction. As horrific as it is, there is a difference between an armed 17 year old child soldier and a 3 year old bystander.
          • chaogomu@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            Okay, city fighting is messy…

            Except the second item on the list,

            https://edition.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs

            Israel is using 2000lbs bombs in Gaza, using hundreds of them. These are not, in any way, targeted strikes. They kill civilians by the dozens.

            In 20 years of war, the US only ever used 500lbs bombs in urban environments. Even that was often barbaric in the amount of collateral damage caused.

            Also, are you calling the fucking Battle of Mosula frozen conflict?

            That was some of the bloodiest fighting in the entire war, all of it urban. There were fewer children killed in the entire 9 months than there have been killed in 3 in Gaza. And not by a small amount.

      • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        But thats not an ad hominem attack, it’s a direct critique of the form your statement takes.

      • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
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        10 months ago

        An ad hominem would be “you are wrong because you are a coward”. My statement was in effect “you are wrong and you are a coward”.

        You could call it an insult, although I would say it was a generous term for someone who offers up mealy mouthed equivocations over the wholesale slaughter of civilians from the air by a nuclear power.

        You didn’t say much that was wrong; you didn’t say much at all. You were just asking questions.