i honestly don’t get the hate. i love the fact that i wont need two apps anymore to see the more mainstream people i used to follow on twitter. tje worst part about twitter going under is the fragmentation.
I understand you, but I specifically went to lemmy to not have any of that bullshit from Musk or Zuck or Spez. Facebook is a toxic dumpster fire(on purpose because money) Twitter is a toxic dumpster fire (because Musk is an asshole). Reddit is basically the same but the ceo is still an asshole. And I am sure that after a few years threads will follow this trend soon.
People keep parroting this but won’t explain how it could happen to the fediverse. As in, actual steps. Because Flipboard federated and I’m not flooded with news posts. Mastodon is used for Nazi instances and I’m not flooded by Nazi content, even if the maintainer don’t block that particular instace due to not knowing it exists.
Care to explain exactly how EEE will happen?
EDIT: thank you for those who took the time to write a clear and technical responses, there are really good point worth considering that a didn’t read anywhere else.
From a more technical standpoint, I believe the idea is more like:
Embrace: Adhere to the fediverse standards to make Threads compatible and be a part of the overall userbase.
Extend: Add more functionality to the standard so that thread users get functionality that other fediverse users do not. This is where they would make it difficult for open-source devs to try and implement the same features in their software.
Extinguish: Finally, when enough of the userbase has been siphoned to their proprietary platform, cease compatibility with the fediverse and leave the old standard to die.
So basically the same thing you said. We can sort of see this with Google trying to make websites only be compatible with Chrome.
even when you do federate with an instance, the global timeline isn’t the default timeline - unlike places like twitter; you have to explicit go into the global timeline to see federated posts.
the only time you interact with other users is if you follow them or if they replace to public/unlisted posts.
You keep parroting this to try and distract people from walked, tried, tested History. As in, actual steps that happened. And asking to be “explained” how History happened. That’s called sealioning.
How about this, good faith way Facebook will still destroy everything
Facebook does one way, minimal federation. Facebook trash content makes its way around the fediverse, but things are mostly the same. Vigilance goes down
Facebook does complete federation, but at the same minimal level. Threads users now get to vote and comment on some fediverse content. This is the peak benefit to the fediverse
Facebook slowly ramps up data flow in both directions. The fediverse has smaller numbers and minimal tools to manage federation.
Facebook has an algorithm, a complex system to manage content to maximize for time/interaction/tolerance to ads.
Threads content will have far higher metrics that will impact our basic sorts, because the algorithm picks winners and losers. Fediverse content shown on threads and chosen by the algorithm also blows up
The various fediverse projects scramble for solutions. They might change up the sorting algorithms to adjust, some try to manage federation granularly (such as not counting threads votes, or treating their content differently). But they need tools that handle granular federation across the board, and they need it without breaking compatibility with activity pub… Every change will roll out slowly, and it’s a very complicated problem.
Threads can update whenever they want, and can change how they federate far faster and more easily, because they’re a centralized platform just deciding how they want to push and pull from external sources.
Some might cut off federation at this point, and users are pissed off they kept being shown the same content, and now are getting even less content.
Others are pissed that their feeds feel like Facebook.
This is the best case scenario… Just like Bitcoin or Tor, a decentralized network can be manipulated by any party who owns over a certain percentage of the network. They’ll be able to control which content we see on the fediverse, because their numbers and algorithm will overwhelm our own.
They could also attack the standard and use standard EEE practices, but even if they don’t, they’ll enshittify the fediverse just by nature of the connection
Stop posting this unless you have an actual argument as to why it’s not just FUD. This dumbass blogpost has been debunked over and over and over again.
Google Talk didn’t kill XMPP.
XMPP didn’t have a significant user base, Google Talk did, so while Google Talk supported XMPP, other open source XMPP clients got to ride their coattails and interact with a huge community and it felt like XMPP was thriving, when in reality Google Talk was what users cared about, not whether or not it connected to the rest of the minor XMPP networks, so when Google Talk decided to stop using XMPP, their users didn’t care or switch and XMPP died.
But that’s fundamentally not because Google killed it, it’s because Google was the only thing keeping it alive.
That’s because developers making websites don’t want to bother to test their thousands of lines of application code on a bunch of different browsers… is your argument that Threads will join the fediverse and then people arent going to test whether their 150 characters of text will work with Lemmy before posting and then all us Lemmy user’s are going to quit because it’s simply too much for Lemmy to render 150 characters of text and maybe an image?
Which ones? I’m on the VA one and USAjobs quite a lot and have had no issues with Firefox.
A link would be helpful.
But tbh that’s not a great example. If we’re talking an about orgs like the DoD, they have a horrendous track record. Some of their shit still required IE after it was deprecated.
I was in the Air Force and worked as a contractor for years after.
i honestly don’t get the hate. i love the fact that i wont need two apps anymore to see the more mainstream people i used to follow on twitter. tje worst part about twitter going under is the fragmentation.
I understand you, but I specifically went to lemmy to not have any of that bullshit from Musk or Zuck or Spez. Facebook is a toxic dumpster fire(on purpose because money) Twitter is a toxic dumpster fire (because Musk is an asshole). Reddit is basically the same but the ceo is still an asshole. And I am sure that after a few years threads will follow this trend soon.
true but you wouldn’t be interacting with it unless you follow specific users or go into the global timeline
idk there are a handful of Reddit communities I miss, I would love to be able to follow them here, ad free, without a Reddit account.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
It’s happened so many times, and every time people thought “this time it’s different”.
People keep parroting this but won’t explain how it could happen to the fediverse. As in, actual steps. Because Flipboard federated and I’m not flooded with news posts. Mastodon is used for Nazi instances and I’m not flooded by Nazi content, even if the maintainer don’t block that particular instace due to not knowing it exists.
Care to explain exactly how EEE will happen?
EDIT: thank you for those who took the time to write a clear and technical responses, there are really good point worth considering that a didn’t read anywhere else.
From what I’ve heard it might be something like this:
From a more technical standpoint, I believe the idea is more like:
Embrace: Adhere to the fediverse standards to make Threads compatible and be a part of the overall userbase.
Extend: Add more functionality to the standard so that thread users get functionality that other fediverse users do not. This is where they would make it difficult for open-source devs to try and implement the same features in their software.
Extinguish: Finally, when enough of the userbase has been siphoned to their proprietary platform, cease compatibility with the fediverse and leave the old standard to die.
So basically the same thing you said. We can sort of see this with Google trying to make websites only be compatible with Chrome.
even when you do federate with an instance, the global timeline isn’t the default timeline - unlike places like twitter; you have to explicit go into the global timeline to see federated posts.
the only time you interact with other users is if you follow them or if they replace to public/unlisted posts.
You keep parroting this to try and distract people from walked, tried, tested History. As in, actual steps that happened. And asking to be “explained” how History happened. That’s called sealioning.
How about this, good faith way Facebook will still destroy everything
Facebook does one way, minimal federation. Facebook trash content makes its way around the fediverse, but things are mostly the same. Vigilance goes down
Facebook does complete federation, but at the same minimal level. Threads users now get to vote and comment on some fediverse content. This is the peak benefit to the fediverse
Facebook slowly ramps up data flow in both directions. The fediverse has smaller numbers and minimal tools to manage federation.
Facebook has an algorithm, a complex system to manage content to maximize for time/interaction/tolerance to ads.
Threads content will have far higher metrics that will impact our basic sorts, because the algorithm picks winners and losers. Fediverse content shown on threads and chosen by the algorithm also blows up
The various fediverse projects scramble for solutions. They might change up the sorting algorithms to adjust, some try to manage federation granularly (such as not counting threads votes, or treating their content differently). But they need tools that handle granular federation across the board, and they need it without breaking compatibility with activity pub… Every change will roll out slowly, and it’s a very complicated problem.
Threads can update whenever they want, and can change how they federate far faster and more easily, because they’re a centralized platform just deciding how they want to push and pull from external sources.
Some might cut off federation at this point, and users are pissed off they kept being shown the same content, and now are getting even less content.
Others are pissed that their feeds feel like Facebook.
This is the best case scenario… Just like Bitcoin or Tor, a decentralized network can be manipulated by any party who owns over a certain percentage of the network. They’ll be able to control which content we see on the fediverse, because their numbers and algorithm will overwhelm our own.
They could also attack the standard and use standard EEE practices, but even if they don’t, they’ll enshittify the fediverse just by nature of the connection
They just want to exploit the data to help genocides happen like they always do
That’s not true… Sometimes they just want to sell democratic elections to the highest bidder
but that doesn’t really happen in a decentralized model.
https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
That’s exactly what happens in a decentralized model.
Stop posting this unless you have an actual argument as to why it’s not just FUD. This dumbass blogpost has been debunked over and over and over again.
Google Talk didn’t kill XMPP.
XMPP didn’t have a significant user base, Google Talk did, so while Google Talk supported XMPP, other open source XMPP clients got to ride their coattails and interact with a huge community and it felt like XMPP was thriving, when in reality Google Talk was what users cared about, not whether or not it connected to the rest of the minor XMPP networks, so when Google Talk decided to stop using XMPP, their users didn’t care or switch and XMPP died.
But that’s fundamentally not because Google killed it, it’s because Google was the only thing keeping it alive.
the internet/web itself is a decentralized model and yet think of how often you see a website that “only works/works best on Google Chrome”
That’s because developers making websites don’t want to bother to test their thousands of lines of application code on a bunch of different browsers… is your argument that Threads will join the fediverse and then people arent going to test whether their 150 characters of text will work with Lemmy before posting and then all us Lemmy user’s are going to quit because it’s simply too much for Lemmy to render 150 characters of text and maybe an image?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen that though. Can I get an example?
Gov websites
Which ones? I’m on the VA one and USAjobs quite a lot and have had no issues with Firefox.
A link would be helpful.
But tbh that’s not a great example. If we’re talking an about orgs like the DoD, they have a horrendous track record. Some of their shit still required IE after it was deprecated.
I was in the Air Force and worked as a contractor for years after.
I only ever see it on Google’s own websites (who woulda guessed) e.g. Google Earth
there are very few sites that work on chromium but not on gecko or webkit, though.
Try setting up a personal email server in 2024 and tell me afterwards how fun the experience was
You don’t need two apps even if your instance defederates