It seems as though we are going backwards. We were doing so well in realising that all human beings are worthy individuals with emotional and intellectual depth, yet now so many of us don’t seem to see any problem with society encouraging many to reduce themselves to sexual objects. How is this rationalised?
edit: typo
You can be sexual and engage in pornography without objectifying yourself or others.
The better question is why we continue to allow our society to demonize sexuality. Own your sexuality. Fuck the church.
This. It’s sinfully taboo and consequently deliciously titillating and commodified for exploitation. Cut it back to just a normal human action and a lot of that goes away
Own your sexuality. Fuck the church.
Speaking of which:
For instance, in 2000, a jury in Provo, Utah, took only a few minutes to clear Larry Peterman, owner of a Movie Buffs video store, in Utah County, Utah. He had been charged with distributing obscene material for renting pornographic videos that were displayed in a screened-off area of the store clearly marked as adults-only. The Utah County region had often boasted of being one of the most socially conservative areas in the United States. However, researchers had shown that guests at the local Marriott Hotel were disproportionately large consumers of pay-per-view pornographic material, accessing far more material than the store was distributing.
Based
In what way do you see embracing sexuality as contradictory to being a whole human? Can you give examples?
I dunno, in a lot of conversations amongst men it seems like women are simply thought of as sexual objects, with the rest largely forgotten. Does not seem very healthy to me.
I agree that doesn’t seem healthy. Misogyny is nothing new, though, and in your post you said people are reducing themselves to sexual objects but the example is people reducing others to sexual objects, which is not really the fault or necessarily the intention of the person being objectified
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Of course, but the entire purpose of pornography is kind of to reduce people to sexual objects, isn’t it?
Is it? Or is it to allow people to indulge in and express sexuality outside of a relationship? I don’t think it has a singular purpose of objectifying people. If people take it that way I think it’s more indicative of a problem with their attitude that they may need help to reframe.
Do violent shows or horror movies make you feel human life is worth less because it shows people getting hurt or murdered?
The thing is… Both with porn and movies… Is that shit happens. I see what you’re saying for “normal” people… But some people actually do that shit.
Whether its porn or crime.
Porn and media is the way people satiate that natural expression without hurting people, but some people go past the line and actually do it. Usually the people that fight against it publicly…
It feels like people only watch pornography in order to satisfy their sexual desires by viewing someone sexually from an external position, while people watch violent shows to feel the thrills of the person from an internal point of view.
Normalized???
It’s still literally rated as less family friendly than watching blood and gore murder.
If anything I’d argue that sexual repression is still going as strong as ever in some places. In some cases to unhealthy amounts.
If you think porn and sexuality being normalized is a bad thing, you should reaaaaaaally think hard on your beliefs for a minute.
Sure, there’s the objectification of both men and women that pornography produces - that is a bad thing, but that’s not solely form porn either. Marketing ads love to objectify people (especially women) for an extra buck or two, and those are practically shoved in our faces openly every single day. Social media is basically just a gallery of this shit too if you’re just looking at whatever garbage the platform feeds you based on trends and what not.
Porn itself isn’t bad, and sexuality is arguably as important as both intellectual and emotional depth are because we’re humans and we have that primal part of our brains still. Yet in the US, for example, both of those things are worse than, say, a violent film. To me, that is the messed up part here.
Sexuality being normalised isn’t a bad thing but have you seen the state of porn lately? the front page of any given porn tube site is such that you cannot have a wank in peace without seeing abusive ‘taboo’ stuff mostly around incest and women being spat on and strangled. I can’t believe that this is some agenda being pushed, they produce this content according to demand. This is to say nothing of the even darker stuff with revenge porn and trafficked teenagers etc. Porn can be fine if ethically produced, the current state of it is fucked up
Did you think for a second and realise that some women enjoy being spat on and strangled? Just search for male porn in the same category and be amazed some men and nonbinary people also like to be spat on and strangled. Stop kinkshaming.
Stop kinkshaming
No. Getting off on abuse and degradation is despicable
Have you considered that your opinion is effectively worthless? You’re 1 in 8 billion.
It’s the same with the drug game. It’a not (all) drugs that are inherently bad… It the dealers pushing them.
It’s the same with porn… You have shitty marketing and businessmen pushing it.
Like… If you were prescribed Adderall and couldn’t get it because the shortage. If you knew a “good” dealer then they could get it for you and try to match your prescribed dose. But if you went to a “bad” dealer they’d push meth to get more sales in the future. Same goes for oxy and heroin/fent.
Marketing and the business is the evil. Not the actions so to speak. A good dealer or business man would help you stop if your life was going downhill.
Shit, it’s the same with social media influencers. They are just toxic and out for themselves.
How is being sexual reducing oneself? Its a glorious, natural thing.
am think is gross
also appeal to nature is bad argument
Why is it gross? I mean drinking piss is gross, but nudity and sex are things that humans did for Milenas.
because include having bodily fluid from someone else inside you
Understandable. Have a nice day.
shit gimmick
why
It’s marketing. Emotion, sex, and religion are the best ways to sell and manipulate people.
It’s all so soulless. I don’t think it’s sexuality or porn that’s inherently bad, it’s the people who fake their genuine self for money that are bad. Although, like with anything, limits for the voyeurs are healthy too.
Prostitution is often referred to as the “oldest profession.”
It’s as simple as that, sex sells.
Also, people are more sex obsessed in more sexually restrictive societies. One could argue the “sexual awakening” of the US is because of prior restrictive attitudes towards sex which are still prevalent and treat sex as more dangerous than violence.
To the extent that sex workers are objectified, it is a direct result of misogyny, which teaches that it is acceptable to treat women as objects, and capitalism, which teaches that it is acceptable to treat workers as objects. At the confluence of these two industries we find pornography.
That said, I believe it is possible to do sex work in a way that is liberating and not objectifying, and in my opinion the hyper-fixation on the objectification of women in pornography is itself a result of misogyny in our culture. Every industry objectifies and mistreats workers, so why do we discuss this issue so frequently that the term objectification is practically exclusive to pornography and related contexts? In my view it is because patriarchy requires women to be “pure” and “unsullied” by sex so as to maximize their value to men. The issue gets subconsciously mixed into genuine concerns for the well-being of sex workers. Together these impulses often lead to paternalistic and unhelpful “solutions” like arresting sex workers, or FOSTA and SESTA which claim to be for the protection of sex workers but according to the vast majority I’ve heard speak on this issue are extremely harmful to their livelihood and wellbeing.
Were you aware of the recent study talking about male microchimerism in the female brain?
Your talk about woman needing to remain ‘pure’ because of ‘the patriarchy’ made me think of it.
I don’t see that they’ve identified any downstream impact from having extra DNA, but wouldn’t it be funny if that actually did impact folks negatively?
Personally, I’m sure glad I’m not carrying around a historical record of the folks I’ve been ‘very friendly’ with…
I did read an article on this topic recently and it is very fascinating but I’m not sure I understand that connection to what I was discussing.
Also, I think I also remembered reading that anyone can have microchimerism acquired through their mothers, so don’t be so sure that you are unaffected.
That occurs as a result of carrying a male fetus, not from male sexual partners.
Same reason anything else is. It’s big money. Porn is a multi billion dollar industry.
As for why “extreme” porn is so “normalized” I think it’s more because it’s stigmatized ironically. Have you ever had an in person conversation about why there’s so much step family porn? No of course not because then both people would be acknowledging they watch porn for one. So the social factors that would guide things are totally absent.
Well in my conversations this comes up. I am open to talk about that to friends (at least some of them) like other normal topics.
Sexual peccadillos [+ religion] have dethroned kings. Can’t threaten a person w/ revealing their bedroom secrets if no one gives af.
Another question - you said things are going backwards. When do you feel that things were better, and what made that time practically better in terms of not objectifying people?
I am quite young, so most of my knowledge of the social conditions of the past comes from literature, which is of course a pretty bad source. But it really seems like it is much more normalised nowadays for men to view women as sexual objects.
What could be more normal than the thing at the literal center of your being, as a human? Both literally and figuratively. It’s literally the center of your body. And sex is literally the thing that makes us exist. Practically every animal does it. And we should be ashamed of it!?
Sex is important for most people but if it’s the “literal center of your being”, you have problems. It’s not like eating or breathing. And there’s nothing uniquely human about it.
I guess they meant that biologically, sex is needed for procreation. Without sex, you wouldn’t be alive.
what happens when no want
If you’re never having it and you want to be, that sucks. I found myself in that position years ago. I was pushing 300 pounds, unhappy, etc… It was a series of events and actions that helped me work through the issues, but the big two for me were psychedelics and a keto diet. (ADHD meds also made a big impact and I’ve seen signs that a gentle anti-depressant could maybe be a really helpful cherry on top for me, but it’s still pretty new.)
I have no idea if that’s relevant to you–your situation may be totally different. But if yours happens to be similar, I would just say to you that it’s 1.) really, truly possible, 2.) it’s really hard, and you might backslide some before it clicks, and 3.) it’s totally worth the painful effort.
am uninterested
We were doing so well in realising that all human beings are worthy individuals with emotional and intellectual depth, yet now so many of us don’t seem to see any problem with society encouraging many to reduce themselves to sexual objects.
Human beings, like most other animals and plants, are fundamentally sexual beings.
It’s good to value emotions and intellect, of course, but even before all of that comes the primitive basis of sexuality, sensual and sensory pleasure, and the propagation of species. Sex (with others or by yourself) is just as much a natural and core part of the human experience as eating, drinking, sleeping, and so on, and embracing sexual freedom and sex-positivity is in no way incompatible with emotional balance, intellectualism, or any other meaningful pursuit.
As such, masturbation or pornography aren’t inherently bad or problematic in any way.
There are absolutely potential problems surrounding pornography, like human trafficking, but those issues are separate things that can and should be treated and handled as distinct. We have the tools as a society to deal with human trafficking and sexual violence, and we can do it without throwing sexual freedom and bodily autonomy under the bus.
In my view the last thing we should do as a society is to continue to engage in mindless sex-negativity, which has a long documented history of direct ties to the persecution of women and LGBTQ+ sexual minorities, as well as needlessly shaming people (sometimes to the point of inflicting real psychological damage) for exploring the full space of sexual possibilities by themselves or with consenting partners. Like everything else, ethics, responsibility, moderation and legality are things to consider, but you can do all of that while still being sex-positive and open minded about personal sexual liberty.
Changing the way you think about and practice sexuality (your own, others, and in general) allows you to know yourself and others in a more intimate, authentic and human way.
Are asexual people not human?
I wasn’t trying to imply that. I’ve edited my post to reflect that I’m speaking generally. Sorry.
Personally I think that asexual people also benefit from sex-positivity and an honest discussion about the wide variety of forms of sexual expression. When we stop treating sex as some dirty taboo thing, and when we start accepting that everybody wants something different out of it (or maybe doesn’t want it at all), I think it becomes easier to understand that all different kinds of people exist with different relationships to sex. That’s not only OK, but a good thing.
A lot of social ills have come from the idea that people who express different forms of sexuality are wrong, gross, bad, sinful, mentally ill, etc. The sooner we move past that flawed and harmful concept, the better, in my opinion.
No, we’re superhuman.
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It seems like you are assigning your own beliefs and values on things and then claiming that people who don’t share them are at a deficit. AKA a dumbass.
