- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
Boys and men from generation Z are more likely than older baby boomers to believe that feminism has done more harm than good, according to research that shows a “real risk of fractious division among this coming generation”.
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On feminism, 16% of gen Z males felt it had done more harm than good. Among over-60s the figure was 13%.
The figures emerged from Ipsos polling for King’s College London’s Policy Institute and the Global Institute for Women’s Leadership. The research also found that 37% of men aged 16 to 29 consider “toxic masculinity” an unhelpful phrase, roughly double the number of young women who don’t like it.
“This is a new and unusual generational pattern,” said Prof Bobby Duffy, director of the Policy Institute. “Normally, it tends to be the case that younger generations are consistently more comfortable with emerging social norms, as they grew up with these as a natural part of their lives.”
Link to study: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/masculinity-and-womens-equality-study-finds-emerging-gender-divide-in-young-peoples-attitudes
Feminism has a branding problem. The name itself makes it sound like it’s about putting women above men. People who don’t know better—the kind of people who are disproportionately young—will judge feminism based on the name.
Calling it feminism made sense when everyone “knew” women were generally inferior to men, but since gender equality has become the mainstream view, the name had lost the context that made it work. Combined with the scope creep of feminism that causes it to encompass issues like disability rights and economic inequality, I think feminism is becoming indistinguishable from leftism.
There might be a reason for that. Where on the right are you hearing strong advocacy for women’s rights and equality?
People in politics are painting infrastructure bills as progressive these days, so feminism is one of those leftisms just like repaving roads and fixing bridges that are years out of spec. The overton window must be the window on a plane because it wont stop moving.
Believibg in the power of cooperation is already communism in some circles…
Wait a sec. Doesn’t it make libertarians communists in their eyes?
Feminism is leftism and leftism is feminism. It’s always been that way because it’s all about the same issue, equality. Women’s rights, civil rights, trans rights, they’re all fighting for the same thing. One of my favorite quotes comes from Fannie Lou Hamer, civil rights and women’s rights activist, “Nobody’s free until everybody’s free”
This is like a main tenet of existentialisme, at least as it’s described by Sartre and De Beauvoir. To anyone reading, check out the very easy reads of Ethics of Ambiguity by De Beauvoir and Existentialism is a Humanism by Sartre.
Problem is that the branding issue is a problem for women too. The vast majority of feminists are great folks who want equality. But it also attracts the self important types that want to use victim status to get ahead or just generally put the other side down. And they’re usually the loudest “feminists”. That perpetuates the branding problem.
I think this problem is always going to exist when we’re talking about large political or philosophical movements. There’s no Council of Feminism who gets to decide who “counts” as a “real feminist”. I’ve met self proclaimed feminists whose views are what I would describe as actively anti-feminist, but there’s nothing I can do to change that.
An example that comes to my mind is how I grappled with the existence of Trans-Exclusionary-Radical-Feminism and it’s adherents (TERFs). It wasn’t just their transphobia I had beef with, but so much of their supporting worldview made me want to proclaim that they are “no true feminists”. That felt intellectually disingenuous though, because who am I to say what “true feminism” is?
I’ve come to terms with this kind of discomfort, and it’s something that has affected to what extent I call myself a feminist. I still do, but like any word, it’s utility depends on context and often it’s just not a useful label when it covers such a wide diversity of viewpoints. Certainly it shouldn’t be seen as a synonym for “good”, which is perhaps how I sometimes thought of it.
Well put. This is a very salient observation! But as OP said, I think feminism is a particularly bad name. It comes across to many as equivalent to misandrist, matriarchist, or a female only club. Rather than anyone in favor of equality for women.
“the scope creep of feminism that causes it to encompass issues like disability rights and economic inequality, I think feminism is becoming indistinguishable from leftism.”
Why do you say that like it’s a bad thing?
Because not everyone is a leftist.
If movement A wants to achieve B and C, then people who don’t want C won’t support movement A (probably), even if they want B. If A just wants B, then everyone that wants B will support A, which makes B way more likely to happen at the cost of C being slightly less likely.
It won’t change as woman in literally in feminism name. The proper word is egalitarianism.
What’s the difference between that and ‘All Lives Matter’.
Egalitarianism is saying about all lifes being treated equally by default regardless of gender, race. It does not say if any life matters or not, here you can add another terms.
It’s basically a base on which you can build. Feminism on the other hand is specifically targettet at woman’s problems and social inequalities, not saying it’s a bad move, just that it won’t ever mean equality overall. It is a subset of egalitarianism and also it will be much easier for feminist to also become egalitatian or the other way around.
I think it’s important to remember that feminism is as much a political movement as a philosophical one. How things should be versus how to fix things are different.
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You’re who I was talking about in my first paragraph.
So “humanism”?
Isn’t this the same rationale for ‘All Lives Matter’? You want to remove the history of oppression and pretend we’re equal, despite trump and tate and the incels. Feminism was and is necessary, the US is removing womens right to bodily autonomy and you’re pretending it’s all over.
Sorry, did you respond to the wrong comment?
Nope. Feminism is no more about putting women above men than BLM is about putting black lives above others. By removing women from the name you remove the history of oppression, a history that should’nt be hushed uo, and in a world with trump and tate feminism is sorely needed.
So why are you “responding” to a bunch of things I never said or even remotely suggested?
This is such an out-of-touch take. I truly hope you can engage in some learning and arrive at a more productive and truth-seeking conclusion in the future.
Branding problems generally don’t arise out of nowhere. When issues like this arise, it’s crucial to ask, ‘Can anyone benefit monetarily from reshaping this narrative?’ Are there individuals and groups being amplified who profit from redefining ‘feminism’ as repackaged misandry?
If you’re familiar with figures from the manosphere like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate, it’s abundantly clear that the answer is abso-fucking-litely, there are individuals who exploit this narrative. It’s not merely a branding problem; it’s a deliberate disinformation campaign orchestrated by genuine misogynists and opportunists, especially prevalent on platforms like YouTube, bolstered by algorithmic failures in what’s commonly referred to as the ‘alt-right pipeline.’
Remember when YouTube was inundated with content titled ‘BEN SHAPIRO DESTROYS FEMINIST LIBTARD’? That wasn’t an accident; it was the beginning of years of messaging and investment. Now, these same individuals are profiting from their unchecked efforts, ranging from merchandise sales to literal fucking exploitation and human trafficking.
Please let me know if any part of this is unclear or poorly worded, or if you have any questions at all. I am genuinely committed to deplatforming these psychos, and it begins with informing people when they may unwittingly defend their actions.
The only conclusion I can take from your screed is that you completely misunderstood everything I said. I’m not defending assholes like Peterson and Tate in any way.
Rereading what I wrote and I get why you thought I misunderstood. I edited my original response as well. Sorry about that.
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