• Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Versus someone who would be even worse for Palestinians and Americans? No, I won’t blame Biden if people let Trump in over the issue of Palestine. Because it means they were fast asleep between 2016 and 2020.

    • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Thats what fucking matters. Do you want to fucking beat Trump or not? Whats your priority here? Running Biden or beating Trump? You have to pick one.

      There is a genocide going on now not later. Joe Biden has had multiple opportunities to stop the genocide he is currently supporting and has not. This isn’t a hypothetical. If Israel is allowed to continue, by April, there won’t be a Palestinian people in Gaza to consider. They’ll have been starved/ bombed to death, by Israel with the explicit support of Joe Biden.

      Do you not fucking get it?

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        There’s another genocide going on now in the U.S. that people like you don’t seem to care about and which Trump will absolutely make far worse.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide#United_States

        Because the genocide of queer people in the U.S. apparently is far less important and if Trump gets into office, has already planned and made clear that it will be far worse.

        But who cares about queer people in America, am I right? Just let them die.

        • stoneparchment@possumpat.io
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          8 months ago

          hey I see and appreciate you, I’m also trans, I literally research justice initiatives for LGBTQ+ and specifically trans* individuals in the USA

          but my friend, can we please not compare what’s happening to us to what is happening to Palestinians? This makes us look like ignorant assholes

          Trans people might be next in line for literal genocide, but right now we’re experiencing ideological violence more than physical violence

          In fact, when we closely examine violence against trans people, the rates of murder and physical violence are only elevated for trans individuals who are poor and people of color. White, middle class trans people are actually less likely to experience physical violence than non-trans poor POCs. That could change depending on political winds, but…

          Right now, people in Palestine are experiencing something horrific and unprecedented that eclipses trans suffering in the USA. I am right there with you, afraid of the march of fascism, afraid of what another Trump presidency might bring for our community. But I am not getting airstriked, starved, and war crimed right now. My children are not being shot in the head. I can write about these issues online and in my professional life and not get hung for it. It’s just not the same.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            No. It’s not the same. But it is still genocide. As the link shows, it fits that definition. And the person is telling me that I shouldn’t do something to stop that genocide because there’s another genocide that neither Trump nor Biden is going to do anything to stop and both will make worse. It seems to be that Americans should work on stopping the genocide that is happening in our own country with our vote rather than voting for some third party in protest or sitting at home when that has never worked.

            • stoneparchment@possumpat.io
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              8 months ago

              Yeah, you’re objectively correct for encouraging people to vote for Biden instead of sit at home in November. Just please, please, please… I deal with offline average joes all the time. If we make one to one comparisons of our situation with that of Palestinians, most people will be disgusted and think we’re incredibly off base.

              We are in agreement across the board. I just want to caution you to be mindful of the comparison, is all.

            • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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              8 months ago

              You’re not stopping either genocide if you elect the same guy who is currently doing nothing (and is actually actively making them worse) about either of these things. That’s pure cognitive dissonance.

                • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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                  8 months ago

                  It sounds like you’ve already decided that you want to support genocide in both the US and Palestine, so clearly you should pick Biden or Trump because they’ll both deliver on that.

                  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    Maybe there’s a better choice. Maybe you know that better choice. Can you tell me who that better choice with a relatively good chance of winning is so I can vote for them?

        • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          So we’re just completely changing the subject?

          Just seriously ask yourself if you want Trump to be president again. If the answer to this is “No”, the look at the data and see how Joe Biden is doing. He’s doing fucking horribly. He’s losing this election and we haven’t even had the convention yet. His support is very low and is dropping. If you insist on proceeding with Biden as candidate, you are insisting on a losing proposition.

          If you are concerned about queer rights, you better figure out a better option than Biden, because by the numbers, he’s not going to win in November.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Pointing out that you are ignoring a genocide in the U.S. that Trump and his people want to make worse is not changing the subject. It’s pointing out that you’re ignoring a genocide. Which you are.

            But please tell me who I should vote for to stop that genocide. Give the name of the candidate that would get enough votes to beat Trump.

            Because if you wanted someone other than Biden, you shouldn’t have waited until after the primaries started.

            But go ahead- give me a name.

            • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Millions of Palestinians are facing starvation right now. They will be dying en-masse before the end of March if something doesn’t change. Joe Biden is supporting this. He just lost There is no equivalence happening within the borders of the United States, except maybe our prison system. Yes the Republicans are setting the ground work for a genocide of queer people in this country. We have to stop them. Insisting that we support a candidate who is clearly losing the election is no way to do this. We can’t afford to lose this election and insisting that Biden be the nominee is insisting we lose this election.

              Uncommitted just won two delegates in Michigan. Biden will not win this election unless he massively shifts his position on Gaza.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                You haven’t given me a name.

                People like you never give me a name.

                If we have to stop them, who should I vote for instead of Biden?

                • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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                  8 months ago

                  You haven’t given me a name.

                  People like you never give me a name.

                  What are you on about? Stop changing the point of the conversation.No one is personally attacking you. We’re talking about what its going to take to keep Trump out of office in 2024, and we disagree about some key points. Why are you making this about you? How narcissist are you? Its creepy and weird. Stick to the points of the conversation please.

                  like you

                  And what is that? An advocate for peace and justice? Someone who wants to not have Trump in 2024, no matter what (even if that means Biden isn’t the nominee)? What assumptions are you making?

                  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    I haven’t changed the conversation at all and never said you are attacking me.

                    Yet again, who should I vote for? Why can’t you tell me? All you’re telling me is not Biden. Fine. So who?

        • Primarily0617@kbin.social
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          8 months ago

          so biden is currently presiding over and doing nothing to stop two genocides? and you want to reward that with an unconditional vote of support, so that next time democrats are in office, they’ll know that people don’t care?

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Reward? No. I want to stop the one who will make it worse.

            And if you can tell me who I should vote for to stop Trump that isn’t Biden, a person that is more likely to get more electoral college votes than Biden will against Trump, please name the person.

            • Primarily0617@kbin.social
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              8 months ago

              biden’s only selling point at the moment is that he isn’t trump, so with 6 months of campaigning and biden’s endorsement you could probably sell any democrat

              me giving you a name now is almost entirely pointless given that you’re just going to turn around and say that because they haven’t already done that campaigning you can’t imagine them being popular

              Reward? No. I want to stop the one who will make it worse.

              do you or do you not acknowledge that by voting biden you’re sending a message to the dnc that their voter base doesn’t care about genocide?

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                I will answer that question after I am told who I should vote for that will stop Trump from getting into office. Because I haven’t been given a name yet despite asking multiple times.

                • Primarily0617@kbin.social
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                  8 months ago

                  You’ve literally asked me once, friend, and I explained why me giving you a name wouldn’t make any sense.

                  I fully expect that in the hypothetical world where the DNC decides it doesn’t want to lose this election and decides to swap out Biden with somebody else that my gut reaction will be that they’re shit, but that’s because they haven’t done any campaigning yet.

                  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    If there’s no one to vote for that has a chance of beating Trump other than Biden, I guess I’ll vote for Biden.

        • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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          8 months ago

          But who cares about queer people in America, am I right? Just let them die.

          Isn’t that exactly what you’re arguing for? The guy currently in office, who you want to re-elect, is the one presiding over both of these genocides. How the hell does re-electing him make things any better?

            • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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              8 months ago

              How exactly does genocide get worse? Are they going to start reanimating the corpses of these dead men, women, and children and then kill them a second time?

      • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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        8 months ago

        Joe Biden has had multiple opportunities to stop the genocide he is currently supporting and has not.

        So, are you claiming that if the United States stops sending some military aid to Israel, Netanyahu will be unable to continue military operations in Gaza? Because if so, you are sorely mistaken. Israel’s military is perfectly self-sufficient, and if you think they particularly care about some UN resolutions, you need to talk to some Israelis.

        American support in this is not a significant factor in the outcome. Joe Biden could not unilaterally stop Israeli operations in Gaza unless he declared war on Israel and deployed troops, and I can assure you that isn’t going to be happening. Not to mention, China, Russia, India, Europe, and all of South America also exist. Americans do not unilaterally decide everything that happens or doesn’t happen in the world. We’re not that important.