- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
Excerpt from the article:
Schenker says that after his years in the service industry, he has watched tipping evolve into a major part of his pay.
“If there is some means of tipping that’s available to you, that should signal to you that workers there aren’t being paid enough,” says Schenker. “Tipping is sort of an acknowledgment of that fact.”
To Schenker, customers who don’t tip are not understanding that businesses treat tips as a baked-in part of workers’ wages.
“They subsidize lower prices by paying employees less,” he says. “If you aren’t tipping, you are taking advantage of that labor.”
He was so close… Especially for someone who says himself does not make much money.
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It’s crazy how some workers actually defend the tipping system and blame the consumer. They’re doing the work of their oppressors and can’t even realize it. The business isn’t subsidizing lower prices, they’re lining the pockets of their investors and telling the workers to get mad at the consumers.
I find the ones that defend it are… Attractive. I’ve heard how some can make more in a weekend than I can in a 2 week period. None of em uggos.
Or highly highly personable. But also usually both.
I was a workhorse and could solo Saturday rush for a restaurant with an hour wait, but I’d have made way more if I could flirt and bs with people when it’s slow.
You ain’t wrong.
Find me a job where I can make more than a full day of construction or contractor labor in 4-5hrs
Spoiler alert - that job is tipped.
General contractors in my state make about $45/hr
Wait staff get tipped, on average, $100 a day
Sounds like you know some shitty wait staff. My daughter currently can top $130 in 4 hours at 18 in rural Ohio.
There’s no general construction worker making 90k/year in Ohio.
According to Ziprecruiter the average annual income of General contractors in Ohio is 88k
That’s because you’re confusing construction and contractor work, which is different work.
Find me a job where I can make more than a full day of construction or contractor labor in 4-5hrs
You forgot your original statement.
Also, according to Ziprecruiter construction workers make, on average, $220-$260 a day in Ohio, which is a little bit below the national average of $240-$290 a day.
Yeah my part time job is tipped and I hate it. It’s a a scam for both the consumer and the worker. I just want a higher wage and not be at the whelm of ppl
I feel for this guy having to make a living with the meager pay of a barista, but setting the minimum wage to a livable level and pegging it to inflation is a much better solution. Hell, throw in some single-payer, universal healthcare, and take that item off everyone’s personal budget while we’re at it.
> throw in some single-payer, universal healthcare
When you do that, don’t forget to include coverage for the stuff around your head: dental care, eyeglasses and mental health. Many countries forgot to include coverage for these things and it is a shitshow.
Unfucking believable. Not a single mention of the actual problem in that article. Not a single mention of who is to blame.
Humans are dumb as fuck. Reddit was full of people mad at moderators for protesting Reddit’s api changes just a few weeks ago.
Dollars to donuts most of those were probably bots
Nah, people are absolutely dumb enough to call the mods childish losers for standing up for themselves.
What is the actual problem that’s not mentioned?
Billion dollar companies can pay their employees $2 an hour…
Why do you think they do this?
Because they’re greedy and it’s legal…
No it’s because customers are happier this way and the service staff makes more than they would otherwise, in a way that responds to inflationary pressures.
Not only is this untrue, but it is disingenuous. I suggest you do more research about tipping and service wages in general.
It is absolutely true and I worked as a server for a decade, and still have friends working tipped jobs.
I disagree that customers are happier. People constantly complain about tipping. Those people are clearly not happy. Much of the world doesn’t do the tipping model, so it doesn’t seem like it is worthwhile for quality of service.
I do agree that staff are happier because they on average would make more (at least more than the paltry minimum wage most states have). But it comes at the cost of taking advantage of customers (basically trying to guilt trip them into paying more). I don’t support such business practices. Not to mention it’s not actually fair pay. You’re not actually being paid for quality of service. You’re paid for how much they like you, which leads to racial and gender pay disparities.
And the real winner? The business that gets to pay pennies to wait staff. They could incorporate the average tip into their prices and maintain the same pay. But they don’t want to. They want to advertise low prices so that they can get the full value from low tippers. They often even outright push mandatory tipping with auto gratuities, which is peak sleazeball behavior.
People only complain about tipping online. In the real world, that doesn’t happen.
I’ve worked minimum wage customer service jobs for a decade. I haven’t worked in jobs that rely on tips (though I have worked in a bar where tipping exists, but is way more normalized) but there’s no way in hell the customer is the answer to paying employees a livable wage—that’s just insane. The burden here shouldn’t be on the customer to subsidize the employer, this “economist” has it ass backwards. This is a situation that has to get worse before it gets better, I am not going to tip more to help the greedy owner undercut their employees
Tipping a barista while paying would almost always mean tipping BEFORE the service is rendered. This is not a tip, it is just an added fee.
True but other than sit down restaurants where do you tip after the service is rendered? I agree that it is just an added fee and we are just subsidizing capitalists.
I don’t know how to fix it though. Not tipping does nothing but hurt the workers.
At some point the responsibility falls on the workers to unionize. I’m aware that is painful. It is also the only true answer because if we wait on the corporate overlords to benevolently raise wages to an acceptable living standard and disband tipping, we’ll be waiting forever.
Barbers, taxis and full service restaurants. Aka the only places you tipped 10 years ago.
Honestly - I can’t see any way but this.
If those jobs no longer pay enough to survive, nobody will take them on, and the capitalist will have to adapt or die.
This is something the government should be protecting workers against, but people are so scared to even unionise, it’s tragic.
Hair salons, nail salons, valet, dog grooming, any sort of contract work around your house like lawnmowing, bars…
Oof really good examples.
Nobody tips lawn mowers and contractors!
When I was well off I’d try to tip everyone who did even a half-decent job. Gas station attendants, grocery store workers, doesn’t matter…unless they refused as part of their work rules (some are like that) I would try to tip them.
Not tipping does nothing but hurt the workers.
A business which can’t afford to pay their workers a livable wage doesn’t deserve to exist. If people stopped paying tips then that work no longer provides a livable wage and it becomes difficult for employers to find employees.
In the end they may even decide to pay their employees a livable wage. Some businesses have already done so.
They’re called tips because tips have certain legal protections, while fees are up to the discretion of the business to give to their employees. Trust me. That delivery fee that you pay Papa Johns goes toward liability insurance, software fees, and other incidentals. None of it goes to the driver. And always pre tip more than 5 dollars if you don’t want to be the last delivery of 3.
I’ve dropped my average tip percentage back down to 15% (20% for good waiters / waitresses I see often). Complying with larger tip percentage is exactly what the business owners want us to do, and to think that it’s going to stop at 25%? 30%? Their default tip range will just keep climbing.
I would feel less offended if on every bill they would just raise the price my 20% and give that to the workers.
If they raised the prices 20%, most of that’s not going to the workers. You know it and I know it.
They effectively have, via tipping. And the employer pays less so ultimately the employee gets screwed no matter what.
The fact they look to us as the problem and not their employers just tells me the scheme is working. Count the money, twirl the moustache and pet the evil lap cat, villains of the world. You’ve won as always, and the downtrodden are still too busy infighting over scraps to realize whose boot they’re under.
Try greater than 40%. A tip is for service provided directly to you. If the employer increases the servers wages by 20% then that’s every hour they work and there may not be any customers for some of the servers shift.
Recognizing that the act of asking for an unsolicited tip as a requisite part of buying a coffee is making both customers and himself uncomfortable, acknowledging that his take home pay is so abysmally low that he depends on tips to make a living, and then after all of that, blaming the customer as the primary problem for not being willing to tip in the current economy/environment, is like making a 95 yard run and then tripping over your own shoelaces at the endzone.
Sometimes you need to burn some clock before getting the TD. I understand what you’re getting at with your analogy, but felt like being slightly ornery for my own amusement. 😏
Tipping is a way customers sponsoring greedy capitalist ability to pay below minimum wage.
In my country, people usually don’t tip. They only tip in some special service, such as sex workers.
Being tipped is a way to make vastly more than you would ordinarily make per hour.
You can always tell the people who haven’t worked for tips lol
Stop making the customers pay your workers. They’re not our responsibility
And why whould I take the slack? You made a deal on how much you will get paied… Is it too little? Negociate… Dont ask for charity
Customer pays for the wages of the server when he pays the bill period.
Hi, I’m American I live in America. I don’t tip, because the entire tipping industry puts more burden on the consumer than is fair. I came to exchange my money for goods or services, as the business expects. I did not come to giveaway even more of my hard earned money to someone who is already getting paid for the very thing they expect me to double pay them for. That is all, have a great day.
As someone who used to live on tips that’s short sighted. The customer will always get the short end of the stick in this type of fight. If everyone refuses to give the employee 20% of the ticket then the business will charge the customer 40% of the ticket and give the employee 15%.
Blaming the customer for not tipping is the short sighted take. A business which can’t afford to pay its employees a livable wage doesn’t deserve to exist.
Yes but the argument here seems to be that these businesses that shouldn’t exist still have patrons in this thread refusing to tip. Refusing to tip in an institution where it’s already the system AND using their services IS the customer giving a big middle-finger to the service staff. If you don’t agree with tipping in general don’t use those services where people’s livelihoods are already tied to the expectation of a tip. Otherwise you are the asshole.
As is your right, still makes you an asshole though. Yeah, it’s fucked up workers aren’t paid enough but that IS the reality of the situation. Tipping at this point is like flushing the toilet - technically optional but not doing it is pretty shitty.
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That’s not true. I’ve heard accounts of early servers who only made money off of tips and were expected to pay the restaurant a portion of their tips for the privilege of serving there. In fact the only way to get service was to tip them beforehand and how much you tipped determined the level of service you received. This tip for good service is just a myth that is an excuse to avoid tipping.
I like the way Europe handles tipping. A lot of the restaurants generally add a fixed service charge (most often it’s about €3 per person), and that’s kinda it. It’s common to leave a couple of euros extra, but nothing too drastic. Huge tips are not expected, and like half of the machines don’t even support the tipping function (more common in France/Italy, for example, while countries like Greece are more likely to have tipping enabled).
There might be a bit more pressure to tip in more touristy city center places, but you’re better off avoiding those in general anyway. Smaller local restaurants are way better.
Furthermore, tipping isn’t expected outside of restaurants/deliveries at all. The amount of jobs that seem to require tipping in the US is insane. Like guys, just put it in the bill and tell me the price.
I only get about $60 at a time. When my aunt takes me out to eat, I may have spent some of the money and also have some to spend after. I can’t really afford to tip.
spoiler
Then you can’t really afford to eat out because you’re robbing someone for their services…
