A jury has found a delivery driver not guilty in the shooting of a YouTube prankster who was following him around a mall food court earlier this year
A jury has found a delivery driver not guilty in the shooting of a YouTube prankster who was following him around a mall food court earlier this year
Can you then not empathize with how this delivery driver was afraid for his life? Not necessarily taking his time and thinking through his options, but reasonably in an actual state of irrational fear?
No. I can’t.
I can empathize but that doesn’t mean I think he was justified in shooting someone.
That’s fine. But it does mean there was no malice, as the jury eventually decided as well. He could have reasonably been afraid for his life, as he had no way to know if this 6’5" individual was sane or very much not.
I mentioned this in another thread but I keep thinking about Trayvon Martin and how upset I was that Zimmerman was released and got his gun back. I feel like our country is increasingly more acceptable of gun violence as a fact of life. How could precedents like this be applied to future cases? I’m not claiming to have all the answers I’m just not convinced that this is the best decision. I could be wrong though. It wouldn’t be the first time.
… I think you’re right, we are becoming a little more accustomed to gun violence, of the large-scale type especially. While I think we’ve always had a lot of gun violence in general, especially if you include gang/organized crime activity, the 24/7 unending stream of news makes exposure to stories of it a lot more consistent and even.
Regarding how the precedent could influence things into the future, I’m not sure.
Thankfully in this case no one died. I think we can all agree on that.
Can we?
apparently not
The issue in that case if memory serves is that nobody actually knew and could testify as to what happened during the confrontation.
The privilege of self defense can be gained and lost in the course of an altercation. If an initial aggressor says “sorry, I’m outta here” and starts walking away, the initial victim’s privilege ends. If you shoot them in the back while they leave, it’s a crime. I didn’t believe a word that Zimmerman fuck said but the burden of proof was on the state. All Zimmerman had to do in the criminal case was say nothing, which is what he did. In the Martin family’s wrongful death suit against the homeowners association, I believe the association’s insurer settled for seven figures or more. Guess they thought Zimmerman wouldn’t make a very credible witness when he’d be required to testify in civil court. They knew why was he was hastling Martin in the first place, knew Zimmerman’s story had gaping holes in it.
The right to remain silent and the reasonable doubt standard rightly freed Zimmerman, in my view.
In the story above, there were numerous witnesses and video. I didn’t follow the trial, though.
So theoretically if someone shot someone else and there weren’t any witnesses or video and the shooter said exactly what happened in this case happened in this hypothetical situation do you think it would be equally justified?
Good question, I think.
It’s not a great fit because of two factors the food court patron knew there were others around and saw the YouTuber’s posse standing there with cell phone cameras. If I were on the jury, that would make it less reasonable for the patron to claim he was in fear for his life. He had no reason to assume the YouTuber was armed, and with that evidence of so people around and it being so open and public, and again, no weapon, patron was at best about to catch a beating, which I think even is a stretch because there was no verbal threats or display of intent to do violence.
Anyway, to your question, assuming the jury is going to disregard the public location and cameras everywhere, if the patron gave the exact same story, I think it would remain unjustified. The shooter claimed that, given the circumstances, he drew the inference that his life was in danger, a danger of serious bodily injury. That’s the standard.
I think there the facts support only an inference of a threat to bodily injury. The shooter could have safely waited before escalating to shooting. Shooting a YouTuber in the chest was disproportionate to the facts, in my view. The proportion has to be objectively reasonable, such proportion as society is willing to accept. I think, if everyone shot in this sort of situation, nobody would like it, and there would be many, many more deaths by gun violence.
Sure he did. He could have pulled out the gun so the aggressor saw it. Could have said “stop or I’ll fucking kill you.” All while continuing to walk backwards and creating space.
If the person keeps coming after you’ve said that, that’s what you can hang your hat on at trial: you knew your life was in danger because the assailant had no fear of death. You could at least say you feared the guy wanted to take your gun and kill you with it. Evidence was that the guy in the article shot immediately upon drawing and didn’t give any sort of warning. He apparently took a few steps backwards, said stop three times, and then drew and instantly fired.
I think the fact that the police arrested the guy, the prosecutors put the case on, the judge didn’t dismiss the it after close of evidence, and the jury was nearly deadlocked, show, that the charges were reasonable in this case. Certainly the jury is in the best position to decide the facts and apply the law.
The thing that may have saved him is that he fired only one shot and the aggressor lived. You’ll notice he was not charged with attempted murder but rather wounding in the commission of a felony, or something like that.
I wonder if the aggressor will pursue a civil lawsuit for assault. Sort of how OJ was acquitted in criminal court but then found civil liable; the criminal standard is one of reasonable doubt, the civil one of preponderance of evidence. Certainly both parties could be found liable under negligence, if the parties sue each other.
Okay, but you can’t just shoot someone because you’re not sure if they’re sane. You get that, right?
I cannot emphasize with anyone carrying around guns.
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No this is exactly where carrying a weapon is bad. The guy had reason to act in self-defense, however potentially lethal force is a harder sell, and boasting away in a crowded place is wrong. If the guy didn’t have the gun, or otherwise defended himself without it, we’d all be cheering and justice would be swift
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And the mask comes off
lol what mask? I am not exactly hiding my disdain for guns and gun nuts