So were the 18 people that fucking died. I get it, all the bleeding hearts need to help every wounded animal they find, but for fucks sake, how many chances do we give murderers and rapists? How many people have to die so that one can get the help they need. As a world, as a species, we have to learn when it is OK to let the wounded animal die. Not every choice has a perfect answer, but letting this asshat off himself instead of hoping that we can fix him and he won’t do it again is the better answer. There is now a 100% chance that he won’t kill anyone, and that’s a much better chance than we’d have if we sent him off to a shrink and locked him up in a broken prison system.
I think you misunderstood @pete_the_cat 's point. They weren’t suggesting retroactive treatment had he been caught, they were suggesting that if he’d been properly treated he might never have committed the crimes he did.
It’s ridiculously difficult it is to get adequate mental health support here in the US. I finally got myself help about 2 years back and luckily it was easy for me to find therapists and psychiatrists since I was in NYC. They’re a dime a dozen. My parents live 3 hours south in NJ, my dad’s psychiatrist retired and there’s apparently no one in the area that he can see (he says he doesn’t want to talk with a female therapist for some reason and feels video chatting is impersonal, he’s 73). The closest ones available are about a 45 minute drive away.
I left NYC and my shrink couldn’t write scripts for me anymore since he wasn’t licensed in NJ. He was prescribing me 1.5-2 pills of 10 mg Ambien every night because everything else that we tried wasn’t effective (I had been taking Ambien for like 15-20 years previously but it tended to make me feel like shit in the morning, but we solved that issue), and the only other thing that works for me is smoking weed. I attempted to see another psychiatrist through the same company (it’s a telehealth company) but that turned into an absolute shit show. The only one I could see before a 3 week waiting period was a new guy. He wanted to follow the rules exactly and refused to listen to me, I told him the hour long intake was worthless since he should have a year’s worth of notes from the previous guy. He wanted me to take all these tests to see if I was on it or needed it. After arguing with him for an hour, he said he would see if his supervisor would authorize it, they did after a week… But it was only for one pill a night, so I went through it twice as quickly. I couldn’t get any more after that because I was moving states again and didn’t want to go through the same bullshit again. They were more than happy to throw ADHD meds (Stratera, not a stimulant like Adderall) at me though! So here I am writing up this comment at 2:30 AM after drinking two 6% ABV beers, walking 7 miles today, taking 40 mg of melatonin and 100 mg of Benadryl. If I had weed, I’d be asleep by now but it’s only medically legal here and I haven’t figured out how to apply for a medical card, also my tolerance is stupid high. This could all be solved if they would just give me my damn Ambien that I need.
My dad has the same problem with getting his Ambien as well, though a different insurance company and doctor.
That’s the most fucked up thing about the past decade or two. This shit keeps happening and people are like 🤷♂️ “let ban the guns so they can’t commit mass murders easily! That’ll fix the problem!” meanwhile completely ignoring the reason that causes all these people to go out and commit mass murders against people that they don’t even know. All this does is incite more violence and rage by those that feel that the government is overstepping its boundaries (second amendment douches) and they feel that they need to fight back against a tyrannical government. This country sucks for a lot of reasons, it’s better off than some other countries, but it’s just getting worse since the rise of social media, smartphones and internet adoption in general by the masses.
This dude could have been treated, he was suffering from paranoid delusions and probably had PTSD. IDK if he actually fought in the wars in the Middle East or if he was just purely in the Army Reserve, but if he was in the wars, he probably saw a bunch of fucked up stuff. There’s a reason why a lot of vets either kill themselves or become addicts after returning home, they’re discarded like garbage used by the government. It can take people multiple months or years to get the free treatment from the VA that they were promised, a lot of them never get it in time. He wasn’t a psychopath (or now as it is more broken down into, Antisocial Personality Disorder) that enjoyed hurting people like many convicted mass murders, he was just fucked in the head. This could have been prevented, it was known that he was having paranoia delusions, our country just loves to be reactive and not proactive. Psych wards are absolute shit, my friend was in a “trauma unit” for a 72 hour hold and it’s essentially prison where they throw meds at you to keep you sedated. Putting him in there for 2 weeks possibly made him worse off.
I’m not arguing that it couldn’t have been prevented. I’m not trying to advocate for thought crimes or anything wild like that. I’m just saying that he killed 18 people, and there is a very real chance that if he was still alive he would try to do it again, even with treatment. Now, that chance is 0%, and I think that we owe it to the 18 people who died to agree that maybe this is a fine way for things to have ended. I’m sure potential targets 19, 20, etc. agree.
It’s terrible. It shouldn’t happen. We should be able to help out every person in the world who is in pain. BUT WE CAN’T. Everyone loves to kick the can down the road and let the blame fall to the VA or Mental Hospitals, or whothefuckever, but no one wants to do anything about it. If you don’t like it, then you need to do something about it, because not enough people are, but the minute you talk about, “I don’t have the time,” but hop on Lemmy to argue with strangers, or “I can’t afford to take time off of work,” but buy a new phone or whatthefuckever that you don’t need, then realize that you are part of the problem. If you think the people of the Armed Forces need better help, then what are you doing right now? Because it sure as shit isn’t helping them.
I’m just saying that he killed 18 people, and there is a very real chance that if he was still alive he would try to do it again, even with treatment.
And where are you getting this from? There’s no way you could know that.
I can’t necessarily do anything about it myself, and groups of people have been trying to usher in healthcare reform for decades but we’re always blocked by lobbying groups, insurance companies that are worth billions, and people who simply don’t think it’s a useful way to spend money.
If you think banning guns will solve the problem, what are you doing about it? It sure as hell looks like you’re doing the same thing as me, aren’t you?
Where am I getting it from? History. It’s rare for people with mental health problems to suddenly cure themselves after a few rounds at the bowling alley. There is a very real chance he would do it again.
And when did I say anything about banning guns? When did I say I was trying to help? I’m just here to argue with strangers.
So were the 18 people that fucking died. I get it, all the bleeding hearts need to help every wounded animal they find, but for fucks sake, how many chances do we give murderers and rapists? How many people have to die so that one can get the help they need. As a world, as a species, we have to learn when it is OK to let the wounded animal die. Not every choice has a perfect answer, but letting this asshat off himself instead of hoping that we can fix him and he won’t do it again is the better answer. There is now a 100% chance that he won’t kill anyone, and that’s a much better chance than we’d have if we sent him off to a shrink and locked him up in a broken prison system.
I think you misunderstood @pete_the_cat 's point. They weren’t suggesting retroactive treatment had he been caught, they were suggesting that if he’d been properly treated he might never have committed the crimes he did.
At least someone understands me 😉
It’s ridiculously difficult it is to get adequate mental health support here in the US. I finally got myself help about 2 years back and luckily it was easy for me to find therapists and psychiatrists since I was in NYC. They’re a dime a dozen. My parents live 3 hours south in NJ, my dad’s psychiatrist retired and there’s apparently no one in the area that he can see (he says he doesn’t want to talk with a female therapist for some reason and feels video chatting is impersonal, he’s 73). The closest ones available are about a 45 minute drive away.
I left NYC and my shrink couldn’t write scripts for me anymore since he wasn’t licensed in NJ. He was prescribing me 1.5-2 pills of 10 mg Ambien every night because everything else that we tried wasn’t effective (I had been taking Ambien for like 15-20 years previously but it tended to make me feel like shit in the morning, but we solved that issue), and the only other thing that works for me is smoking weed. I attempted to see another psychiatrist through the same company (it’s a telehealth company) but that turned into an absolute shit show. The only one I could see before a 3 week waiting period was a new guy. He wanted to follow the rules exactly and refused to listen to me, I told him the hour long intake was worthless since he should have a year’s worth of notes from the previous guy. He wanted me to take all these tests to see if I was on it or needed it. After arguing with him for an hour, he said he would see if his supervisor would authorize it, they did after a week… But it was only for one pill a night, so I went through it twice as quickly. I couldn’t get any more after that because I was moving states again and didn’t want to go through the same bullshit again. They were more than happy to throw ADHD meds (Stratera, not a stimulant like Adderall) at me though! So here I am writing up this comment at 2:30 AM after drinking two 6% ABV beers, walking 7 miles today, taking 40 mg of melatonin and 100 mg of Benadryl. If I had weed, I’d be asleep by now but it’s only medically legal here and I haven’t figured out how to apply for a medical card, also my tolerance is stupid high. This could all be solved if they would just give me my damn Ambien that I need.
My dad has the same problem with getting his Ambien as well, though a different insurance company and doctor.
You know how other countries have these weird things in place to get people treated before they go on killing sprees. How about that shit?
Just saying “Oh good, that asshole is dead, let’s move on” is the American Way.
That’s the most fucked up thing about the past decade or two. This shit keeps happening and people are like 🤷♂️ “let ban the guns so they can’t commit mass murders easily! That’ll fix the problem!” meanwhile completely ignoring the reason that causes all these people to go out and commit mass murders against people that they don’t even know. All this does is incite more violence and rage by those that feel that the government is overstepping its boundaries (second amendment douches) and they feel that they need to fight back against a tyrannical government. This country sucks for a lot of reasons, it’s better off than some other countries, but it’s just getting worse since the rise of social media, smartphones and internet adoption in general by the masses.
This dude could have been treated, he was suffering from paranoid delusions and probably had PTSD. IDK if he actually fought in the wars in the Middle East or if he was just purely in the Army Reserve, but if he was in the wars, he probably saw a bunch of fucked up stuff. There’s a reason why a lot of vets either kill themselves or become addicts after returning home, they’re discarded like garbage used by the government. It can take people multiple months or years to get the free treatment from the VA that they were promised, a lot of them never get it in time. He wasn’t a psychopath (or now as it is more broken down into, Antisocial Personality Disorder) that enjoyed hurting people like many convicted mass murders, he was just fucked in the head. This could have been prevented, it was known that he was having paranoia delusions, our country just loves to be reactive and not proactive. Psych wards are absolute shit, my friend was in a “trauma unit” for a 72 hour hold and it’s essentially prison where they throw meds at you to keep you sedated. Putting him in there for 2 weeks possibly made him worse off.
I’m not arguing that it couldn’t have been prevented. I’m not trying to advocate for thought crimes or anything wild like that. I’m just saying that he killed 18 people, and there is a very real chance that if he was still alive he would try to do it again, even with treatment. Now, that chance is 0%, and I think that we owe it to the 18 people who died to agree that maybe this is a fine way for things to have ended. I’m sure potential targets 19, 20, etc. agree.
It’s terrible. It shouldn’t happen. We should be able to help out every person in the world who is in pain. BUT WE CAN’T. Everyone loves to kick the can down the road and let the blame fall to the VA or Mental Hospitals, or whothefuckever, but no one wants to do anything about it. If you don’t like it, then you need to do something about it, because not enough people are, but the minute you talk about, “I don’t have the time,” but hop on Lemmy to argue with strangers, or “I can’t afford to take time off of work,” but buy a new phone or whatthefuckever that you don’t need, then realize that you are part of the problem. If you think the people of the Armed Forces need better help, then what are you doing right now? Because it sure as shit isn’t helping them.
And where are you getting this from? There’s no way you could know that.
I can’t necessarily do anything about it myself, and groups of people have been trying to usher in healthcare reform for decades but we’re always blocked by lobbying groups, insurance companies that are worth billions, and people who simply don’t think it’s a useful way to spend money.
If you think banning guns will solve the problem, what are you doing about it? It sure as hell looks like you’re doing the same thing as me, aren’t you?
Where am I getting it from? History. It’s rare for people with mental health problems to suddenly cure themselves after a few rounds at the bowling alley. There is a very real chance he would do it again.
And when did I say anything about banning guns? When did I say I was trying to help? I’m just here to argue with strangers.