• sonoranspace@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    17
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    The Live ATC archive sounds like the controller said “taxi to holding position Charlie 5”. With no explicit “hold short runway 34R” there no transcripts yet, and we don’t know what the coast guard confirmation response was to the command, but the tower command seems ambiguous at best. It’s pretty hard to pick out but the tower call is at about 15:10 in this archive https://archive.liveatc.net/rjtt/RJTT-Twr-TCA-Jan-02-2024-0830Z.mp3

    • Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      10 months ago

      Taxi to holding position is standard ICAO phraseology, they should have been off the runway at C5. Line up and wait would have them on the runway.

      US uses different phraseology.

      • ZJBlank@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        10 months ago

        Interesting, we the same sort of language as the US up here in Canada too, but I always assumed it was the same thing the world over. Is there a website or handbook containing ICAO standard language available somewhere? I’m curious what other differences there are

        • Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          10 months ago

          ICAO PANS ATM Doc 4444

          It has actually been a cause of runway incursions by US-trained aircrew in the past.

          • ZJBlank@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            10 months ago

            That makes a lot of sense, because like I said in another comment, I’d be more likely to interpret that as “taxi into [takeoff] position and hold”, not “taxi to threshold.” Hopefully the change that comes of this is US/Canadian aviation starts using the ICAO standard phraseology.

            • poopkins@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              10 months ago

              While I do think this is a good idea, I don’t think it can be attributed as a factor in the accident. The captain of the Japanese Coast Guard had nearly 5 years under his belt and was likely much more familiar with ICAO phraseology than what is used in North America.

              • ZJBlank@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                10 months ago

                You’re probably right, I’m being too quick to jump to conclusions.

                As an aside, I find it a little ironic that most of the world follows ICAO phraseology, yet Canada, home to ICAO’s headquarters, does not.

      • poopkins@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        10 months ago

        Thank you for pointing this out.

        I had also looked into it in more detail, and came to the same conclusion. In the ICAO quick reference guide they provide an almost identical example:

        Taxi to holding point C, runway 27, Big Jet 345

        I’ve clarified this in my analysis.

    • poopkins@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      10 months ago

      The official transcript was shared in a press conference:

      [ATC] JA722A Tokyo Tower. Good evening. No.1, taxi to holding point C-5.

      [JA722A] Taxi to holding point C-5, JA722A No.1. Thank you.

      I’ve put together a detailed write-up here.

    • ZJBlank@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      10 months ago

      I couldn’t make sense of anything in that recording, but if you’re right about the tower call, then that sounds a lot more like “taxi into position and hold” than “taxi and hold short of runway.”