Meloni heads Italy’s most rightwing government since the second world war. Italy’s criminal code punishes with a fine ranging from €1,000 to €5,000 anyone who “publicly defames the republic”, which includes the government, parliament, the courts and the army.
how to tell if youre in a facist state:
the person accusing the facist goes to jailNobody went to jail.
Then it’s not a fascist state. Moving on
Pretty much. I don’t think people here know what a fascist state really is…
Historically, fascists didn’t start off with genocide. First, they got democratically elected…
Not what’s happening now,like at all XD
The nazis started by targeting lgbtq+ people. I wonder what scapegoat the far right has settled on these days?
Exactly like how it’s happening in every other country…
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Oh, Lemmy has fascists now.
The left wing was cutting public services, right. Famous left wing policy. I think you’re thinking of liberals.
It’s astounding these people still don’t realize how obvious their tells are. Blaming migrants? Almost certainly an insensible right winger.
One of the main ‘issues’ with decentralised social media is that it allows the fringes of the political spectrum to have a platform. We’ll have to find a way to get along.
I’m not sure I want to “get along” with fascists.
I’m sure I don’t.
My sentiment is the same, albeit wording.
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I share your general sentiment, I phrased the last part wrong - just trying to be civil in my post. Defederation with fascist instances would be the best shout.
It’s called defederation.
Defederation is an outrageously blunt instrument for moderation.
It’s part of a process.
- Step 1. Nazi says nazi things.
- Step 2. Non nazi reports to instance admin.
- Step 3. If the nazi is local, the instance admin can choose to ban. If not, the instance admin can choose to ban the user from their own instance and then escalate to the nazi’s instance admin.
- Step 4. If the nazi’s instance admin takes action, the nazi needs to find a new home, end of story. If not, that means that the nazi’s instance admin is chill with nazi shit.
- Step 5. The local instance admin can then chose to defederate from an instance that is chill with nazi shit.
To me this looks like a pretty robust process. What other steps would you add?
Main thing I can think of is an option for non-admin users to block an instance on the client side. Like blocking a community or user except it does both, for everybody from that instance.
You don’t get along with nazis you exterminate them like you would any parasite.
One of the main advantages of the federated medium is that providers can block the sources of gaslighting and propaganda and that users can move onto the ones that do.
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No you’re just a fascist agreeing with a fascist government. Might as well call yourself what you are.
Let me guess, whoever disagrees with your subjective experience is also a fascist am I rite
Fascism has an actual definition. People pretending it’s just a vague insult are likely fascists themselves in my experience.
Did disagreeing with you makes me a fascist in your eyes? If so thanks for demonstrating
Sorry but people who openly admire Mussolini (the original self-proclaimed fascist) are fascists pretty much by definition. Sounds like you may be one of them.
If “civilised” means I have to tolerate fascists then I don’t wanna be civilised
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Except that the scales aren’t the same and that it favors those who have the power and money to persecute people who don’t through the legal system. Like, for example, prosecuting the someone randomly offending without any proof such as yourself.
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Courts are usually the last vestiges of authoritarian power in democracies, having to rely on the authority of life-long (and politically) appointed supreme court judges after all recourses have been tried and done (which for you may not be many if you don’t have a wealth of cash), and they are at their worst when tied to money, power, and lack of public transparency. Most countries don’t even have jury systems in their courts and you can’t represent yourself within it. The predominance of mafias in Italy and their spread internationally is more than a hint of how ineffective and biased they can be.
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if you think everyone should be able to offend anyone without effects, be it, i don’t agree
Sad that you don’t live by your own words, but unsurprising. And it was just 5 comments that had to be consistent with each other, too.
the left wings after years of cutting public services to bend to corporativism and ECB, leaving the country in the hands of all sort of migrants without doing anything for security, finally got what they deserve
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Meloni is definitely far-right, and comes from a historically fascist party. So he is just stating the facts here.
Do you mean the well the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
Is Georgia Menoni known to the rest of the world as anything other but the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini , proud member of Forza Italia and defender of her grandfather.
She blocked me on Twitter just for telling her a really cool fact: there’s an emoji of her grandfather. It’s this one! 🙃
I don’t understand.
Look up how her grandfather died.
I thought he was shot, didn’t know the rest.
Grandpa’s last look into this world was being hung upside down and killed
I didn’t realise there was a rope element, just thought he was shot.
She did good, clearly you werent looking for a discussion …
Fascists don’t deserve a discussion.
Than don’t complain when they block you XD
Saves me the trouble of blocking them.
TIL about Italy’s shunning of their past in contrast to the “collective guilt” felt by Germans after WWII
Have you ever heard of Mafia. Bc if you come to this country they will mostly collectively lie and tell you" Hun? Naaaa that’s gone". You live here for a while and you like, oh ok, we just pretending it’s gone nice.
The fact that the Italian military & it’s leaders were spared from the Nuremberg Trials made this all the easier.
Italy has a real hardware love for fascism, it’s part of the culture, unfortunately. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go full Nazi in the coming decades.
After WW2 italian socialist and communist parties where between the strongest ones in non USRR europe (if not the number one), but let’s just spout random nonsense for no reason
While the extreme right wing never disappeared, they were as much as a niche as the extreme left.
The country stayed between the left and the center until well into the 90s when a moderate right became more prominent and started to be closer to a 50/50 split
The general right wing radicalization we’re seeing now is way more recent and it’s hardly a phenomenon exclusive to Italy.
I totally agree that the current Italian government is ridiculous and that this problem with extreme right wing populism is becoming very serious in most western countries, Italy included.
But comparing this to a culture ingrained love for fascism when fascism didn’t last for even 1% of Italian history and culture is just asinine and ignorant.
This kind of attitude is ironically very similar to the racism you’re trying to criticize
With operation Gladio Italy was the core place for neonazi terrorist groups that received paramilitary training and funding by the US and carried out multiple terrorist attacks to be blamed on the left. It is hard to believe that the Italian government wouldnt have known and tolerated theses activities too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
Italy has a real hardware love for fascism
yup even italian computers are infected
I swear to god that I typed hardcore. lol
Sometimes it feels that Italy consists entirely of pasta, fascism and 🤌.
Literal actual fascists behaving like fascists, surprise surprise.
Yeah this was my thought reading this, too.
Who woulda thunk that when you give the fascists power, they don’t stop being fascists! #surprisedpikachu
Now, what I would do if I were Brian Molko is I would absolutely go to trial. Turn it in a show. Either I get convicted, in which case, Meloni looks even more like a fascist, or I get exonerated, in which case, it’s the courts that are accepting that she’s a fascist.
5000E is not an issue, he can fundraise that in an afternoon.
GO BRIAN
As Porco Rosso said: “I’d rather be a pig than a fascist”. Be like Porco Rosso…
Porko Rosso
Unless there’s a pun I’m missing here
“rather be a pig” and pork=pig meat
The character’s name is already Red Pig in Italian, though?
Yes but this is internationally friendly
Unless there’s a pun I’m missing here
Ah, yes, nothing like forbidding people from calling out fascism to prove your government isn’t fascist.
I’m sure Placebo, a British band, doesn’t give a single dry fuck what this stupid Italian fascist wants to investigate.
Someone is about to learn what “Streisand Effect” means.
You mean racist fascist Giorgio Bologna?
They were in Italy at the time so I suppose they could have caused issues if they went full full fascist.
I’ve never really been a Placebo fan or a supporter until right now
Brian’s duet with David Bowie is a thing of beauty.
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Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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Fascist gonna crybully
Didn’t the world fight a world war to stop this kind of government from taking full control over a people?
Nah, Italy’s fascists were never really purged, because the occupying Americans preferred them to the Communist partisans
I’m not saying that Americans didn’t play their dirty tricks as usual, but it was Italian voters that elected Meloni, not the US…
it was Italian voters that elected Meloni, not the US…
As if that matters. As if Trump wasn’t elected by US voters after massive disinformation campaigns and international meddling.
Whether the people are partially to blame or not is a complicated topic. Both in the US and Italy, about half of the population were educated/smart enough to see through their propaganda. The right wing party still won though because they picked their target audience effectively and tailored their whole campaign around that audience.
@iByteABit @Damage forest for the trees…
Never laid the blame for that on anybody else
WW2 was started by the Nazis, so it was really them fighting for something. The rest of the world just defended itself
It’s a lot more problematic when the Nazis call from inside the house.
Ethiopians would disagree
Not really
Nah, just the one. And it was because he was killing hordes of people, not controlling them.
Um Mussolini’s Fascist Italy was very much in the war
But Franco got a pass. Probably because he didn’t invade his neighbors and committed his atrocities at home like a good little fascist.
Wait, which mussolini? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini
I’ve been surprised that some western countries have laws like this. A French woman has also been fined for insulting Macron.
The public prosecution department in Germany let someone’s home got searched because he called a conservative politician “Du bist so 1 Pimmel” (“you are such a penis”) via Twitter.
At the same time the public prosecution department in Germany regularly refuses to take action against hate speech when aimed against other people. Even other politicians.
And since many people do not really understand our jurisdiction, they believe it is enough to protest against the police.
I wonder what their response would be to a bunch of lemmings outside the reach of Germany’s laws doing the same?
It’s almost like making laws against free speech is a slippery slope.
It can be, but not all speech is free, not even in the US.
Them’s fighting words.
Nope. There’s a bunch of thoughts and speech acts that don’t contribute anything. There’s a reason the swastika and other Nazi codes/insignia are outlawed in Germany. “We just need to exterminate the Jews for a better life for everyone else” is similarly outlawed under an incitement to genocide clause.
There are very good reasons to put barriers on absolutely free speech.
What i meant was actually, fighting words are not protected under free speech in the USA. Not disagreeing, just making a funny.
Not just that, slander, defamation, hate speech, harassment can all be speech yet you can get sued and will have to pay for that sort of speech. Actually the US is basically the same as most other western countries, the „only the US allows free speech“-simpletons couldn’t be further off.
To be exact, there is a difference between insult and defamation
I’m not too sure about the technicalities either, so I’m not sure if insulting is also a problem.
But declamation requires saying something false to ruin the other person’s reputation, and it’s actually a crime even against normal people
declamation requires saying something false to ruin the other person’s reputation
*defamation
Declamation is a form of rhetoric.
Thank you, I didn’t notice the typo!
Anytime Meloni gets upset about anything I just remind her to be like her grandpa and turn that frown upside down.
You’re thinking of Alessandra Mussolini.
Dang, thought this one was related to him too. We can still turn them upside down though right?
Need a lot more people to get a lot more radical first.
It’s not defamation if it’s true. Getting punished for stating the obvious is the hallmark of a fascist state. It’s fishy that the original video from Repubblica has been removed.
Per Wikipedia:
Defamation, at a first approximation, is any form of communication that can injure a third party’s reputation.
So it might be slander, dpending on Italy’s laws. :(
That might apply to the ‘piece of shit’ part, but the ‘fascist’ and ‘racist’ part are true, and not damaging her reputation, as her reputation with her voters is built upon these
So no freedom of speech?
You’re free to be super duper racist, sexist, ableist, pretty much any kind of discrimination you want. Isn’t that enough?
No, I want talking shit about governments without government punishment. Ya know, freedom of speech
Yeah we do,these laws are not commonly enforced if ever.
In other words the law is only enforced if you piss off the wrong people. Great system.
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No,not even then :)
- as long as you direct these towards groups/people we also hate.
Not if it means I have to trade away my right to criticize the government.
“Free speech bro’s would kindly request that all free speech is fully aligned with the party policies… thank you”
Yeah, wtf?
In a democratic state it is imperative that the population is free to criticize their government.
What is the EU saying about this? Don’t they have demands on member states to uphold democratic values?
The EU is wiling to impose severe GDPR restrictions to stop its own citizens from revealing just how racist and oppressive their governments are on social networks, all the while and without a shred of irony criticizing the US, that does allow this liberty, when it is revealed through a means they do not afford their own citizens.
The EU is a lot about appearance, not about reality. I’m sure the EU will form some committee or other to polite suggest to Italy to not be fascist.
Lol wut XD
In European countries, authorities and people use the GDPR to argue against dashcams, security cams recording public space, and even disseminating smartphone recordings on social media, whereas in the US not only is it a no-brainer that you can do it, it has been used to great effect in regards to recording and denouncing gross violations and abuses that European media has no problem reproducing on their news networks.
Tell me what European country you are from and I will look up the fines people have received by doing things they could freely do in the US to report abuses due to the GDPR.
wait are you talking about the right to be forgotten?
No, but that’s also another example of a law that’s generally abused by the powerful and affluent to hide themselves from society.
A lot of downvotes, but no one taking up on my offer, which says a lot about how many of those downvotes come from people willing to inform and challenge themselves.
In your dreams XD
