While I dislike bloat, I also avoid distros that have been minimalized to the point of uselessness. Minimalist distros are great for old and embedded computers, but regular desktop ones should not require you to install 90% of the OS after booting it.
Last time I tried installing Arch it didn’t include wireless drivers and various other stuff that was in the live environment. I had to keep going into the live environment, chrooting over to my install, install some shit, reboot into my install, see I picked the wrong one and it’s still fucked up, reboot back into my live env, chroot…
I’m sure a some self-proclaimed Arch god will tell me I’m a stupid n00b and it’s easy and I’m just dumb and can’t read the wiki and I should know the exact wireless card inside my 8 year old laptop… ok, cool. It was still annoying as fuck. I’m sure the live environment wasn’t that big and didn’t have that much bloat. It would be great if there was an option to just install the shit that made the hardware work in the live environment, which worked fine, wireless and all.
Not to be “that guy” but the installation manual on the ArchWiki does say to install wireless drivers/networking software before you reboot out of the installation medium.
Is there an easy way to find what wireless driver is actually needed? That was the issue. It’s easy to say, “install the driver,” but without a lot more information they is easier said than done.
Yes, most laptops usually have a page on Arch Wiki for specific quirks, however most drivers are in the kernel and do not need additional installation (Intel, Realtek and the Qualcomm one maybe Athenian) are all in the kernel, you likely just forgot software to initiate connectivity with Wi-Fi like NetworkManager.
Connecting to wifi in live environment was pretty easy. I recall all I needed to do was iwctl and it worked. Though, I do sympathize with you. This should’ve been much easier considering that it’s expected that the user is going to need to access the internet.
Right, the live environment was easy. The drivers were there, the utility was there. Pull the list of networks, put in the password, good to go. I know half the point of Arch is doing it yourself, but if it auto-detects your network card, and it knows you’re on wifi… maybe install that stuff so things keep working instead of acting like it’s 2002 and most people are on a wired connection. Arch without a network connection is basically useless. I don’t think most users know what driver their wifi card needs, so it’s just a matter of installing a bunch of shit until something works, which makes the install feel a whole lot less clean. I get wanting to pick and choose packages, but if it can auto-detect and support the basic hardware, that seems like like it would be the minimum viable OS.
And I don’t know if things changed. I probably did this around 2014 or 2015, so it’s been a while.
Yeah, it does help the user know their system, which is a good thing for if/when there are issue down the road. Although I think if I was really after the learning experience I’d probably go with Linux from Scratch or Gentoo.
I hadn’t heard of archinstall before. I’m not a big fan of the warnings, it’s seems like they’re telling people they really shouldn’t use it, lol.
Same. I know a little about Linux, but if I’m installing on a laptop or something where wired internet isn’t a good option and there’s no discernible cli tools installed to help configure/fix WiFi, that’s too arcane for my blood.
What does “uselessness” mean to you? Arch and other minimal distros are completely functional. If anything, they require less work to set up than a typical distro if you are a competent user who intends to customize the hell out of their system. It’s not for “old and embedded computers”… there are distros for that. Arch has an explicit philosophy and target audience, and it has nothing to do with low hardware power.
While I dislike bloat, I also avoid distros that have been minimalized to the point of uselessness. Minimalist distros are great for old and embedded computers, but regular desktop ones should not require you to install 90% of the OS after booting it.
Last time I tried installing Arch it didn’t include wireless drivers and various other stuff that was in the live environment. I had to keep going into the live environment, chrooting over to my install, install some shit, reboot into my install, see I picked the wrong one and it’s still fucked up, reboot back into my live env, chroot…
I’m sure a some self-proclaimed Arch god will tell me I’m a stupid n00b and it’s easy and I’m just dumb and can’t read the wiki and I should know the exact wireless card inside my 8 year old laptop… ok, cool. It was still annoying as fuck. I’m sure the live environment wasn’t that big and didn’t have that much bloat. It would be great if there was an option to just install the shit that made the hardware work in the live environment, which worked fine, wireless and all.
Not to be “that guy” but the installation manual on the ArchWiki does say to install wireless drivers/networking software before you reboot out of the installation medium.
Is there an easy way to find what wireless driver is actually needed? That was the issue. It’s easy to say, “install the driver,” but without a lot more information they is easier said than done.
Yes, most laptops usually have a page on Arch Wiki for specific quirks, however most drivers are in the kernel and do not need additional installation (Intel, Realtek and the Qualcomm one maybe Athenian) are all in the kernel, you likely just forgot software to initiate connectivity with Wi-Fi like NetworkManager.
Connecting to wifi in live environment was pretty easy. I recall all I needed to do was
iwctland it worked. Though, I do sympathize with you. This should’ve been much easier considering that it’s expected that the user is going to need to access the internet.Right, the live environment was easy. The drivers were there, the utility was there. Pull the list of networks, put in the password, good to go. I know half the point of Arch is doing it yourself, but if it auto-detects your network card, and it knows you’re on wifi… maybe install that stuff so things keep working instead of acting like it’s 2002 and most people are on a wired connection. Arch without a network connection is basically useless. I don’t think most users know what driver their wifi card needs, so it’s just a matter of installing a bunch of shit until something works, which makes the install feel a whole lot less clean. I get wanting to pick and choose packages, but if it can auto-detect and support the basic hardware, that seems like like it would be the minimum viable OS.
And I don’t know if things changed. I probably did this around 2014 or 2015, so it’s been a while.
I mean, it’s a learning experience which is nice
And also there’s archinstall now, if you just want it to work.
Yeah, it does help the user know their system, which is a good thing for if/when there are issue down the road. Although I think if I was really after the learning experience I’d probably go with Linux from Scratch or Gentoo.
I hadn’t heard of archinstall before. I’m not a big fan of the warnings, it’s seems like they’re telling people they really shouldn’t use it, lol.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Archinstall
Same. I know a little about Linux, but if I’m installing on a laptop or something where wired internet isn’t a good option and there’s no discernible cli tools installed to help configure/fix WiFi, that’s too arcane for my blood.
What does “uselessness” mean to you? Arch and other minimal distros are completely functional. If anything, they require less work to set up than a typical distro if you are a competent user who intends to customize the hell out of their system. It’s not for “old and embedded computers”… there are distros for that. Arch has an explicit philosophy and target audience, and it has nothing to do with low hardware power.