Politeness norms seem to keep a lot of folks from discussing or asking their trans friends questions they have, I figured at the very least I could help try to fill the gap. Lemmy has a decent trans population who might be able to provide their perspectives, as well.
Mostly I’m interested in what people are holding back.
The questions I’ve been asked IRL:
- why / how did you pick your name?
- how long have you known?
- how long before you are done transitioning?
- how long do you have to be on HRT?
- is transgender like being transracial?
- what do the surgeries involve?
For the most part, though, I get silence - people don’t want to talk about it, or are afraid to. A lot of times the anxiety is in not knowing how to behave or what would be offensive or not. Some people have been relieved when they learned all they needed to do is see me as my gender, since that became very simple and easy for them.
If there are trans people you know IRL, do you feel you can talk to them about it? Not everyone is as open about it as I am, and questions can be feel rude, so I understand why people would feel hesitant to talk to me, but even when I open the door, people rarely take the opportunity.
My only question is why? Why go through all that stuff to “become” someone when you can just “be” who you already are?
I mean, almost nobody is happy with the body they’ve grown, but most of us just accept it and go on with life. What is the reason for drastic changes like taking hormones and getting surgery and needing other people’s validation?
I hope this isn’t seen as transphobic, I’m happy to accept anyone, I just really don’t understand the drasticness of it.
Because that body was so unpleasant I was considering suicide. There was a wrongness pervading every aspect of my life. And I’ve long liked the term “hormonal dysphoria” to describe how in some trans people such as myself the mere act of having the wrong sex hormone dominance essentially has very similar symptoms to major depression.
I tried plenty else first. I attempted to man up, I grew a beard and got somewhat strong. I tried being an effeminate man and cross dressing for a bit. I tried religion. When I transitioned there were still old trans people giving the old advice, to wait to transition until the only alternative was suicide. I hit that point at 19 and began hormones at 20, but in a more accepting world I’d’ve probably accepted myself at 16.
Re: “wrongness” and “accepting yourself”, how much do you think it has to do with how society/others regard the identity you present? I.e. how much do you think the path you’ve taken is an internal development vs a response to society?
In order to describe what I’m thinking: Today, you’ve found a place/role within society where you’re more comfortable than the places/roles you’ve taken in the past. However, a completely different culture/society would have had different available “options”.
Sorry if I’m being way too abstract/hypothetical. Even as a “more conventional normal person”, I’ve long wondered how different I might be had I grown up in a completely different society.
I think about bits of it somewhat often as well as the global history of Trans identities is complex and because as a feminist I maintain criticisms of our society’s expectations on gender. But at the same time, I’ve experimented and messed with the social roles relating to gender since I was young. So when I look at groups like the hijra and two spirits I can see that in those cultures I might’ve fit in those genders. But ultimately, it’s a thought experiment. My culture and I shape each other, and as much as I challenge it i am also bound by it as my place of understanding of the self.
But at the same time, the body wrongness that’s hard to see as anything other than innate. I remember having phantom breasts as a teenager. I remember being uncomfortable having a penis as a very young child. I do not believe there is a world in which I could be happy with a testosterone dominant body without serious neurological differences. I think in a time period where no form of estrogen was available I could have managed with mere removal of testosterone, but it would not have been thriving.
It can be really hard to understand why trans people transition - the answers are complicated and involve explanations of the neurobiology of sex and gender.
One way to help you understand is to imagine or even try out being in the wrong sex yourself - if you are male, imagine you were born a woman, they named you Sue and expect you to date boys, play with dolls, dress in frilly skirts and dresses, and so on. Why can’t you just be Sue authentically? Why bother with horomones and social transition?
When it feels wrong to be in the wrong sex, it is due to how your brain developed as a fetus, and you can’t help that the wrong sex hormones make you depressed and anxious, you can’t help that your body feels completely wrong, you can’t help that the only known solutions to the suffering is to take the right hormones, to fix the body and to live as your actual gender. Cis people don’t have to go through that struggle, so it’s harder for them to understand what it’s like to be trans. It makes complete sense you would have difficulty understanding, even as a trans person I struggled to recognize I experienced gender dysphoria or that I needed to transition - it was not obvious at the time.
And if the thought doesn’t bother you, you might be actually agender or genderfluid or something. I probably am agender for this reason, although I live as a cisman.
Thats such a good way of explaining it so people understand, Ill start using that example
Edit: to clarify in case there is confusion, im not trans, just like the explanation and will use it in future
For me at least, there’s a pretty significant difference between being in a body i find revolting versus one I don’t. I wanted to live my life as someone I could tolerate, who didn’t make me feel disgusting.
I’m not underselling it, dysphoria is repulsive. I felt like a freak, I felt wrong. I just did whatever I had to do to fix that. Validation wasn’t something I sought as much, it’s certainly nice to be recognized but I transitioned for me first and foremost.
tbh even before hormones were changing my body, they drastically altered my mind and alleviated my depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation within a few months … while the dysphoria I feel about my body is severe sometimes, it’s much easier for me to live with than having testosterone dominance in my body and its impact on my mind
This is what I didn’t understand about transition before, that it can have these kinds of medical consequences. I thought of being trans more as a social thing, and that never seemed worth prioritizing. I had no idea the wrong sex hormones can cause depression and other mental symptoms (and not just those symptoms caused from being sad because body looks and feels wrong, I mean the sex hormones directly impact the brain and cause the symptoms).
Many people go out of their way to transform their bodies, from diet and exercise to drugs and surgery. My question is why not? It’s your flesh puppet; decorate it how you like.
I wouldn’t characterize transition as decorating your flesh puppet in the same way that cis people do when dieting and plastic surgery … not that transition doesn’t involve those things, but there is a clinical basis of transition that is not there when just pursuing beauty. This is why your boob job may be covered when trans, but not when cis.
When I was younger, I assumed that trans people wanted to transition because they felt their personality wasn’t their “assigned at birth” sex. And thus, because of society’s expectations that “men should dress and act this way” and “women have to do/be this,” a lot of people who didn’t meet that would be trans. But as I met and talked to more people, both trans and agender/genderfluid/etc., it does seem like those with body dysphoria actually feel uncomfortable in their bodies, and want a different body. But I’ve never actually asked any trans friends about it, because it does feel too personal, even though some of them are very good friends.
So, my question: if there were no gender norms or societal expectations, would you still want to transition? Would that answer change if surgery/hormones aren’t desired, and you instead do want to keep the body you were born with?
Yes, without gender norms or social expectations, I would still transition, at least medically.
Testosterone made me depressed, anxious, suicidal, anhedonic, and gave me night terrors. That was true for me even when I socially transitioned and lived as a woman full-time in every part of my life. Estrogen’s impact on my mood is hard to overstate, and those benefits happened well before there were changes to my body. This has been called “biochemical dysphoria”, and not every trans person experiences it, though it is common.
When I transitioned, it was mostly for my health and well-being. I had little hope of ever passing because I transitioned so late in life, so my goals were fairly minimal - basically I just realized I was a burden to the people in my life who cared about me (like getting those phone calls that I was in the ER again), and I realized being a repressed trans person might be causing problems for me and making me this way. I felt an obligation to do what was right by me, so I could be a better person for those around me. I underestimated the effect hormones had on mood and well-being. If I knew what I know now, I would have transitioned much earlier. I have no idea how I survived so long (looking back, I really almost didn’t).
So yes, I transitioned without the social aspects ever being the main goal, because I never was motivated by that primarily. I felt dismissive of gender (I even hated gender) and whatever gendered desires I had felt always unimportant to me. I would never be so selfish as to prioritize those needs over practicalities like holding down a job, or not being a hate crime statistic. It turned out my closeted cross-dressing wasn’t just about a silly desire to wear dresses and skirts, I didn’t know that.
Before I got top surgery (boob removal), being alone in my room with my boobs just there would give me dysphoria. I didn’t really have a way to exist in my body without feeling dysphoria after puberty started (although I felt it at times before then as well). Other people noticing and treating me like a girl made it worse, but being away from them didn’t make it go away. Periods made me suicidal, and that’s not really a public event (unless you’re having a truly terrible day).
Some trans people don’t like the ‘I was born in the wrong body’ explanation because it’s kind of overly simplistic. Not problematic or anything, just at the level you’d explain things to a child. Like, if you were born with a clubfoot or cleft palate you wouldn’t necessarily want an entirely new body, you might just want your foot or mouth fixed, right? Some people feel that way about transition, and I think I lean closer to that myself.
I can only speculate on what I’d be OK with if I didn’t need HRT and top surgery, but I will say a decent number of trans people, even trans people on HRT and who have had/want surgery, are also gender nonconforming for their actual gender as well. Not ‘oh they don’t pass,’ but for example lesbian trans women who specifically choose a butch look, or gay trans men who choose a twink aesthetic.
Yes, HRT both improved my mood, and I also feel far more comfortable in the body it’s giving me. Fuck gender stereotypes, though.
I’m relatively old for a non-binary person, so I didn’t realize I’m trans until my late 20s. But I identified as a feminist starting in my early teens and majored in Women’s and Gender Studies in college. I put about as much work into deconstructing my view on gender norms as one person reasonably could. But it wasn’t until I gave myself permission to lay down the burden of trying to be a woman that I started to feel like the rest of my life was worth living.
I haven’t tried HRT or surgery, but having gender affirming clothing, hair, name and pronouns (ie. socially transitioning), and having people in my life who respect my name and pronouns, has been extremely helpful in letting me be comfortable enough to live my life.
There being no gender norms would actually be even more liberating. It means we’re not pressured into only wearing femme clothing (when going the estrogen route) or masculine ones (when doing testosterone).
It’d open up a ton of possibilities for cis and queer people alike; wearing skirts on warm days for men also, or wearing pretty nail polish, or short hair for women…
Ultimately, the ideal is indeed the removal of repressive gender norms. When these are gone, we can fully express ourselves; taking hormones would be perfectly okay, not taking them as well, and so on. People certainly still would, but they’d feel happier not being bound anymore.
I would still want to transition. I was a very proud soft “tomboy” growing up, parents who encouraged it, had no reason to not be perfectly happy as a butch woman except for the fact I still felt a disconnect and dissociation from my body that I couldn’t place. I tried different pronouns online, put on a binder and suddenly I crashed back home into myself. Felt like I was in my body rather than floating around it and dressing it up and no longer felt misshapen like a crushed bottle. I still have shoulder length hair, still paint my nails, I’m just perceived and look a way that feels right to me now.
I also have a trans man friend I knew from childhood who was always very feminine, mainly in his love of dolls but also a very gentle and sensitive personality. Surprised us all when he came out really. But again, it’s nothing to do with our personality or interests (and there are loads of transmasc femboys too), it’s something more abstract and core to our sense of self than that
I’m a trans woman. I’ve never been feminine. No one picked on me because I was “girly”. No one secretly thought I was gay. My interests were geeky, but they were “boy” geeky.
I don’t believe in gendered personalities. People have genders. Personalites don’t.
it does seem like those with body dysphoria actually feel uncomfortable in their bodies, and want a different body
That’s often a part of it, but it’s not universal. There are many trans and gender diverse folk who don’t experience things through this lens.
if there were no gender norms or societal expectations, would you still want to transition?
Yes, but it would look different. The social part of my transition was important to me, because it influences how people see me. It shapes whether they see me accurately, or see me as someone I am not. My appearance can cause them to stick me in the wrong gender box, and that is something that I needed to change.
But if we existed in a world where there were no gender boxes, where gender was as diverse as people themselves are, then my transition would have looked different. I’d still needed to have addressed the physical aspects of my body. But socially? If my birth name didn’t automatically carry a gender with it, if my clothes and my presentation didn’t automatically carry gender with them, then my social transition would have looked very different.
I gave some feedback to someone on Mastodon who had been going to voice training. I was kind of curious how that works - what the journey is like. I could definitely tell a difference for them.
This is just a fact I learned along the way, not so much personal experience, but I thought it was super interesting to learn that apparently one of the biggest differences between masc and femme voices isn’t just pitch but more constant variation in pitch.
Afab folks are typically less monotone and use pitch more excessively throughout their speech which I thought was really neat. Unrelatedly, I also heard Hank green explain the physiology of voice recently and how your voice can “break” or what the difference between your “head voice” and “chest voice” is, and the reason amab folks vary pitch less seems almost certainly a product of different vocal cord physiology after experiencing puberty (your vocal cords change in a way that makes it harder. Those same changes are what’s responsible for your voice breaking more often, as you struggle to control the now sharper difference between lower and higher pitches you can create. Where afab and prepuberty folks can more easily manage a smooth gradient in pitch), which is also really interesting!
If anyone wants a video on the vocal cords explanation stuff I can link to it, it was from hank’s “ask Hank anything” with Jacob Collier
I think this is a link to the video you are talking about: https://youtu.be/Q0_W4SWHeWY?t=1652
A few distinctions:
“head voice” vs “chest voice” is more of a distinction about resonance and the way the voices sound, mostly related to the “size” quality of a voice, a smaller voice is usually more “in the head” sounding (think Mickey Mouse), and a larger voice is usually more “in the chest” sounding (think of a giant saying “fee fi fo fum”), but in terms of physiology the main difference is not chest vs head, but more that the space the sound travels through is larger or smaller - like if a glass is more or less full.
Falsetto is its own distinction from head vs chest voice, and Hank’s explanation is about pitch rather than resonance. Higher pitches pull the folds tighter, while lower pitches are more loose. This is why vocal fry (a common facet of female voices) is often a problem for transfeminine voices, because it gives an impression of a weighty and lower pitched voice.
Generally with falsetto the pitch is high, but trans women shouldn’t aim to use falsetto because it is usually unsustainably high, sounds unnatural, and could cause injury through straining. Instead, when the goal is a female voice, it is more important for a voice to sound small and light (about size and weight) than high in pitch, which luckily can both be achieved without straining.
Variations in pitch are more common in feminine voices, but this is connected to how expressive women are - a pitch sliding up and down, and being elongated, is often conveying emotions. As I understood it, this difference is mostly cultural, so this is the first time I’ve heard someone say the reasons for monotone voices in men might be physiological - I am immediately skeptical, but intrigued. As a clear counter-example, gay men have the physiology of male vocal folds, but they are commonly found to have pitch variations similar to women.
Sure, I can talk extensively about that - what are you most curious about?
I should also say, it’s different for men vs women, because testosterone will thicken vocal chords and make the voice more masculine naturally, so trans men on HRT have an advantage this way, though trans men still often have to voice train, learning to pitch lower and trying to open the vocal tract more to have a larger, deeper voice both have to be learned.
(This all assumes puberty blockers were not provided and the transition is happening as an adult, which with the healthcare bans for minors in the U.S. is an unfortunately common reality.)
On the flip side, trans women don’t see any improvement from estrogen to their voice - the vocal chords remain thickened, and their vocal tracts remain larger.
When I socially transitioned I tried to teach myself and voice train by myself, but after months of little progress, I decided to go to a local speech language pathologist (SLP). I continued to teach myself and train on my own, but the speech language pathologist was able to help direct me, and crucially, to demonstrate principles to help me learn.
I learned some of the basics of vocal training in general - how to sustain pitches and strengthen the voice, practicing SOVTEs, and other exercises singers or actors might do.
Voice training is grueling, one of the worst parts of transition. Vocal dysphoria is a nightmare, and in my experience even once my voice passed all the time (i.e. on the phone people hear a woman and I get “miss” and “ma’am”, as well as in person), the voice still sounds wrong to me, and I can’t hear it as a woman’s voice. In that way it’s similar to other kinds of dysphoria - I am much more sensitive, so even once I look like a woman to other people, I still see a man or boy in the mirror.
But with vocal dysphoria, you are constantly exposing yourself to your voice. With other forms of dysphoria, you can get breaks by not looking in the mirror, not having sex, and generally checking out of life - escapism and dissociation can be really effective, but vocal training demands regularly paying attention to your voice, and persistently altering it. It’s psychological torture, and a lot of us struggle to make progress because of it. Some even use it as a form of self-harm.
It took 8 months of weekly visits to a SLP and daily, full-time training (i.e. every day I had exercises and I was intentional with my voice, and basically was voice training 24/7, always paying attention and changing my voice) before I saw a shift. The progress for me felt like a major shift all at once, a lot more of the work was cognitive than I expected, more about the ability for my mind to recognize what I’m supposed to be doing. In a way it felt like I suddenly just realized I always knew how to sound like a woman and it just clicked. The time it takes varies, generally voice training is a life-long effort and it never ends. My vocal dysphoria is some of the worst dysphoria I suffer on a daily basis, and some day it would be nice for me to train with the goal of helping alleviate my dysphoria, but up to now I have been more pragmatic and focused on having a voice that other people hear as natural and female. Here is a voice clip I uploaded 4 months ago - to me this voice reminds me of a gay man’s voice, I can’t hear a woman. :-/
Anyway, let me know what further details you might be interested in 😊
To me you don’t sound like a gay man in that clip, but like a woman. I think your hard work is paying off.
Listening to that voice clip I think you sound very femme, and not just in your voice itself but your speech patterns. Like if you removed all tone hints from your voice and made me guess guy/girl I’d guess girl with no hesitation even tho I can’t pinpoint exactly why - is that something you taught yourself consciously, or is it just kinda a natural product of being a woman in western culture?
Also you said in the voice clip you wanted impressions, not sure if you still care given that was four months ago but I hear your voice as a woman in her 20s, maybe early 30s? I’m not great at guessing ages even when I’m standing in front of someone tho, so take that with a grain of salt lol
Anyway thank you for doing this Q&A, I always love to see new perspectives on the trans experience!
For me, it looked like doing voice training. It was largely self guided, watching videos here and there. This was in the time when trans instructional videos were far less common than they are now, so it was a bit hit and miss. But, I got my voice to a point where people didn’t know how to gender me by voice alone, and looked for other cues and clues.
Ultimately, I ended up getting vocal surgery to shorten the length of my vocal cords.
I used to work with a trans woman who was a huge bitch, at least some of the time. Like actually shouting at coworkers for tiny mistakes, all-caps shouting in company chat at people trying to help with stuff, thinking she’s the smartest person in any room, that kind of stuff.
i’ve always wondered if she’s just a bitch or if at least some of it could be a side effect of hormone therapy? I mean, completely changing the hormones for your body must have some pretty dramatic effects in many areas and might take a long time until your body adjusts.
but a definitely won’t just ask ‘yo. Are you just a huge bitch or is it your medication’ in a corporate setting.
[edit] just for clarity, she started transitioning about 1 month after she joined that team and I left after about a year and a half, in part because of the mood on the team going to shit, among other reasons. But so I couldn’t compare to pre-hormone therapy or anything like that.
[edit2] thank you for all the replies, this was really enlightening and answered a lot of questions! Especially on a topic i feel is discussed less often, or at least I haven’t come across.
For me it was the opposite, I became way calmer and happier once I started HRT.
Are there cis people that are angry and emotional all the time for reasons you don’t understand?
Well, it’s the same thing when you see it from trans folk…
Of course there are. But I mean, women’s hormones do affect mood during the menstrual cycle (my wife certainly says she’s more iritable before her period), and afaik the hormone therapy is some of the same hormones, so it didn’t seem far fetched at all to me that it could play a role. hence me asking.
but could as well have been some deep seated anger at the world or similar, or something in between. Mostly I was just trying to think of reasons for why she might not be as bad as she was seeming, benefit of the doubt kind of thing.
Right, but if your wife was yelling at people all the time, and writing emails to co-workers in all caps, and constantly getting on peoples bad side, you wouldn’t go “Oh, she’s hormonal”. You’d probably assume that there is something else at play.
Same assumption applies here.
Interestingly, IIRC, one of the major hormonal factors in irritability during the menstrual cycle is a relative spike in testosterone levels. (Non-expert, could be wrong, but heard this once.)
It’s complicated, hormones can influence behavior, but most trans women who take estrogen don’t subsequently shout at people as a result. We don’t know what was going on with her, but it’s not just the hormones, even if they may play a role.
For what it’s worth, I became a much more pleasant, well-tempered person as a result of hormone therapy. Calmer, happier, and more social, and I attribute that mostly to the benefits of being on the right hormones.
Neither trans men nor trans women become more aggressive due to HRT! Early on, you might have some mood swings as your body adjusts (you’re going through puberty after all) but my understanding is that because of the regimented way we receive it, we’re actually much less likely to get those sorts of shifts because our hormone levels are more controlled than cis peoples. But it also just depends on the person, T has made my partner a bit more crabby but I’ve chilled tf out. It sounds like this particular person just has a very reactive personality
I guess there are multiple factors. I think the biggest one is just the personality of the person. But starting taking hormones is basically a second puberty for the body. Most trans folks do not become as irretable as a person in their puberty but if one has a predisposition to it, a transition may trigger that a bit.
Somewhat related: Australia’s state-funded ABC channel produced a Q&A documentary show called “You Can’t Ask That” with an episode for transgender people. It might be harder to watch outside of Australia but it’s worth the effort. The semi-related Drag episode was also fascinating. Disclaimer/CW: I haven’t watched the full episode in years and suspect there might have been transphobia in some questions.
Official 2 minute teaser question: https://youtube.com/watch?v=GSilokmn8zI
(A couple of other countries had localised spin-off versions of the show but I haven’t watched them.)
That particular episode was one of the final steps in breaking down my own internal resistance to accepting myself.
I might have to try to find this, thanks!
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone mentioned the episode was particularly important, so if you can’t find a copy (Australian VPN and iView throwaway account is ideal, maybe streaming services might have it?), I finally managed to find it and other episodes in lower quality for quick and easy access 🏴☠️🦜 Let me know if you want it.
you are so sweet, thank you!
Where do you find the energy to just be alive in 2025? Things weren’t great for you before but now the reds are out for blood over being told to mind their own damn business. You people are going to be first in line for the next round of gas chambers if the Nazis get their way.
And yet you persevere.
Just, fucking how?
love for my peers and allies, and spite for my enemies. i am made of iron. i will persevere. i will prevail.
Spite.
I mean, the suicide rate is pretty high, relative to cisnormies.
survivorship bias is real
Every alternative is worse.
This year has sucked but I’ve been keeping my shit together at least.
in-person non-electoral organizing keeps me sane
I had to leave my home and family behind in a conservative state to seek safety in a liberal state with trans protections on the books. I’m still unpacking boxes and wondering how soon I will need to flee the country … It’s like rock climbing, everything is dangerous and you just keep laser focused on what is right in front of you. The stress keeps you in a state of momentum and can distract you and give you a sense of agency. When there are gaps when I can lose my focus, I break down. It’s overwhelming, but there is no alternative - you don’t choose to be trans.
Do you prefer visual porn, or written erotica/smutty novels?
As a child, written. Sometime as a teenager it became a mix (socially adapting to boyhood), but probably 80 - 60% visual, 40 - 20% written.
Now I find the ideas are more important than the visuals, so even when visuals are involved it’s more about the scene or idea than just the visuals. I would have said that was true before, but testosterone libido is more nagging and you don’t always feel like investing in such an unfulfilling activity.
Libido on testosterone was impulsive, animal-like, and disturbing to me. Like a cigarette addiction. I hated living that way.
On estrogen, it’s not that my libido feels lessened (in some ways it feels stronger, I swear it made me more horny, which I was disappointed by), but it feels less impulsive, more connected, and generally deeper.
I like the comparison of estrogen libido being like a hot coal, while testosterone libido is like quick-burning pine.
Interesting! Thank you.
Unrelated to being trans (well, at least I think it is), but I have aphantasia. Written erotica is basically useless to me, because I can’t visualise!
Pre-testosterone was written, post is visual. Can’t explain it
I mean, that is what you’d expect if were hormone-based.
When considering dating trans/NB folks, what is the best way to ask about their genital configuration, gender identity, and future planned trajectory?
In other words, I have a strong preference for female genitalia. I also strongly prefer limited or no body hair (shaved is fine). There is a set of tomboy/androgyny/boi that is my type. Is there a polite way to ask about this?
Honestly I am not sure there is a particularly perfect way to raise genital preference, but it is good to be transparent and honest about your preferences, it might be good to raise early and in a context where you are opening the floor to understanding their needs and preferences too, esp. around any dyphoria they might experience and what their needs are.
The majority of trans folks are pre- or non-op, so it’s best not to assume anything about their genitals, and if you have preferences it’s even more important to communicate about.
For transmasc folks you might need to examine your preferences and the extent to which female gentials make you see men as women (just like when men really enjoy penises on trans women), and just be honest with yourself and your partner, and be careful not to invalidate someone’s gender.
Tbh, this isn’t that far from talking about hair and sexual preferences with cis people, it’s just good to be sensitive because being misgendered can be really dehumanizing.
That’s pretty much what I figured. Wish trans folks had something like the old school hanky code.
As far as my preferences go, I was in a triad for a while with an NB. If I were stuck on a desert island and had to pick between a vanilla woman or a sub boy, I’m picking the boy. However, like I said, I have a strong preference for female genitalia. The whole tomboy/NB thing is the sweetspot for me in this spectrum.
I also have smell preferences. MtF, many NB, and cis women smell much more attractive to me. I imagine it’s related to test levels. I don’t find heavily transitioned FtM very attractive. There’s an androgynous smell that’s kind of like fallen leaves that I really like.
Not trying to fetishize here, but thought the perspective might be interesting. I’m very masculine and fall somewhere between a wolf or bear.
there might be like hanky codes, but I just might be the wrong girl to ask, I’m the over-committed lesbian trope, have had a single monogamous relationship for over a decade 😅
If I were single, I wouldn’t be interested in dating or actively seeking out a relationship.
Ok, this could really help us.
A friend’s now-daughter made it very clear what her new gender/name/pronouns were - great.
A neighbour seems to be transitioning to female but hasn’t in any way offered new pronouns.
We want to be supportive but not intrusive. Is it better to use “they” until they initiate/clarify? My wife said she’d ask their partner but I feel that’s trying to lead the conversation and could be pushing them before they’re ready.
Thanks
The way to approach this is to make it absolutely clear that you’re supportive. Use “they/them”. Tell your neigbour about your friends kid and how happy you are for them etc. And then just follow their lead. They’ll tell you what they need when they’re comfortable doing so, but you’ve just made it a lot easier for them to get to that point
Thanks @ada, will do. This is very reassuring as I was concerned we were slipping from supportive into nosey! :)
You don’t want to stigmatize or make assumptions, so it’s best to let people determine what they disclose and when, and to just respect people’s pronouns and self-identification.
Unfortunately nothing is universal, they/them can sound like a great way to politely handle the ambiguity, and it can still accidentally make someone feel bad, even if it’s reasonable and ultimately their fault for not disclosing their pronouns.
It sounds like your mindset and intentions are good, so just keep going with that - signalling you are trans-supportive will make people feel more safe and willing to disclose around you, but in the meantime just let people come to you and disclose. Using neutral language in the meantime is just a bonus!
So sorry for the slow reply - camping without mobile signal is a double edged sword! :)
Great advice, and very consistent with another couple of responses so thank you
Yes, they is a good default for anyone you don’t know the pronouns of, in general. And it’s great that you care about doing what’s right already!
Sorry for the slow reply. Thanks for your advice - it really helps as I’m very keen not to be a bystander in supporting trans rights in my country. It seems we’re at a tipping point and I want to be on the right side of history.
I had a rather ridiculous conversation with family just this week where an older aunt declared they couldn’t support “her” work colleague as “she” had indicated “she” would now like male pronouns. I ensured every incorrect pronoun received 2 correct ones until she knew she wouldn’t be allowed to get away with it :)
Having a thread for people to ask stuff is a good idea
thanks! my only hesitation is that I don’t want to create a moderation burden, but I hope people will both be civil, but also willing to open up about their concerns, questions, and perspectives - I find the trans topic is weirdly taboo IRL (at least with people who know I’m trans), so it’s hard for people to have honest conversations and learn anything (and also, for me to understand what they’re feeling and wondering about).
That said, I notice this most with liberals and cis allies, people who wish to be polite and respectful are the most likely to not talk about it.
Conservatives and anti-trans people are more willing to share their opinions, but also usually less willing to listen or take seriously any information or perspectives that are presented. That said, I still have found respectful conservatives more willing to talk about trans stuff than liberals, and early in transition I found that more satisfying and helpful, it made me feel less alone and gave me a way to think with people in a way I couldn’t get from my liberal friends. That’s really unfortunate, I think (for lots of reasons, it’s not exactly healthy for me to be exposed to anti-trans views, even when I can see why they don’t make sense rationally).
Idk if this fully explains the weird taboo you described, but I’m personally reluctant to ask people questions I know they must get all the time. It can get annoying/draining fielding the same questions from every second person even if they’re mostly well-meaning, so especially in cases where people can’t just not reveal the attribute/hobby/whatever I’m curious about I just try to remember the question to look up later.
Not sure how common that is, but if that’s the cause then what you’ve done with this post is the ideal way to bypass this hesitation imo; just being clear (even just from the context) that you’re choosing to talk about this and not just feeling pressured to explain would make the difference at least for me personally.
Anyway idk if this is relevant at all for you, but if it is I hope it helps :)
respectful conservatives
Did you also find unicorns?!
They do exist in places where it’s just the default politics. One has to suspect that if they seriously learned and thought about things, they’d move left.
if they seriously learned and thought about things, they’d move left.
assuming religious and community ties don’t keep them from doing that, I tend to agree - I think most people are decent, and come to reactionary positions because of exploitation (such as religious indoctrination)
Community, status and not being economically punished are way bigger motivators than being abstractly correct, right? Nobody really goes looking for inconvenient truths. Unless those naturally nice, understanding conservatives start meeting a lot of very different people, like if they move, the worldview will probably stay put.
To be a little more doomer than you, I’d actually say there’s lots of people that go the other way as well, and go looking for a cult to join as an outlet for whatever nastiness is inside of them. Consider that in the grand scheme of things, monotheism and racism are both new.
Community, status and not being economically punished are way bigger motivators than being abstractly correct, right? Nobody really goes looking for inconvenient truths.
I do think being autistic might correlate with prioritizing abstract truths over social statuses that might be harder to understand or grasp the consequences of going against. It’s not uncommon for people with ASD to also be strongly invested in social justice, and I think these might be connected.
Unless those naturally nice, understanding conservatives start meeting a lot of very different people, like if they move, the worldview will probably stay put.
I think even meeting new people, they will usually just find some way to rationalize and maintain their current status while granting exceptions to those local to their life. My conservative friends are sorry that I have to flee a state for its transphobic views, but they personally endorse those views and also vote and donate money to further anti-trans movements. How they reconcile these views is a matter of rationalization, but they hold both that I am precious to them, and that trans people should be rotting in prisons and denied care.
To be a little more doomer than you, I’d actually say there’s lots of people that go the other way as well, and go looking for a cult to join as an outlet for whatever nastiness is inside of them. Consider that in the grand scheme of things, monotheism and racism are both new.
I very much doubt racism is new, I think tribalism is probably on some level a biological instinct: those closer to you have more moral status than strangers, and especially the people we can’t speak the same language as, etc. Taken to further extremes of “stranger”, we can see this tendency in our speciesism (the tendency to see humans as the only animals with moral status).
That said, monotheism does seem to be “newer”, at least its absolute dominance and spread can be traced back a few thousand years compared to what as far as we can tell is a much longer period before of at the very least an absence of monolithic culture and religion, usually animism was polytheistic it seems.
Tribalism is ancient for sure. As is cultural bigotry. Hating people primarily do to skin colour and related features is a thing that specifically developed 1500-1700, as the trans-Atlantic slave trade got going (and needed to be rationalised).
When the Romans or Mesopotamians hated on their neighbors, it was over food preferences, language and customs. If they ascribed anything biological to it, the prevailing theory was more about response to the local climate than heredity. Then, once monotheism got going deviation from religious orthodoxy became the most popular way to hate. It’s not a coincidence that “Slav” and “slave” sound similar, because pagan Slavic people were a major source of slave labour in medieval Europe. It drove the crusades, and it had a role in the early stages of expansion into the new world.
The first slave ship came to English North America in 1619, but the passengers were treated as normal indentures, and at least some became free later on. They kept coming, though, and by 1700 or so black people had to be slaves and that was pretty much it. (Colonial Spain had their own, somewhat divergent system a bit earlier)
The Romans had emperors drawn from Africa and the Middle East, and had conflict with Germanic and Celtic people that could easily have been Latin by appearance. The first sub-Saharan African in Japan was made a Samurai, and now there’s a videogame about it. That’s not to say the difference in appearance wasn’t noticed or remarked upon (they tried to wash the dark off of Yasuke, and Heterodotus makes special note of the woolly hair and stature of the distant Africans) but in every pre-modern story I can think of it was gotten over quickly compared to other, behavioral things.
Anyway, I guess the point is just that there’s been steps backwards as well. There would have to be, otherwise ignorance would have gone extinct over the millennia, right? Maybe it still will; we live in a totally transformed world now, but it’s going to require continuous effort. Hate is always shifting and changing and evolving from things that might even have started off as harmless or positive (Jesus is less controversial than later Christians).
Are there any self-identities which you would consider invalid? Transracial identity? Otherkin? Insincere trans identity, such as the recent case of Liebich, a transphobic neo-Nazi who legally identified as a trans woman seemingly just to avoid men’s prison? Which of these should be contested and which should be validated?
I personally think transracial identity is particularly interesting when one considers that race is a fluid social concept rather than an objective concept like genetics (see how in the US and Europe different peoples have historically changed from being considered ‘black’ to being considered ‘white’ over time, see how a person can be considered a race in one society and a different race in another society, such as “mixed-race” people or people with ancestry from the edges of continents). Unfortunately most of the examples of transracialism I’m aware of are cases where deception or fame played a large part in compounding criticism, such as Dolezal and Korla Pandit, leading to claims of their transracial identity being exploitation.
Are there any self-identities which you would consider invalid?
I just want to be clear. Blahaj lemmy does not allow invalidating of other folks identities.
The comment alluded to Transracial identities as a (very cherry-picked and extreme) example. I do really, genuinely wonder whether we should uncritically accept the validity of people who identify as transracial, especially people who benefit from whiteness but self-identify as a member of a marginalized race. What is the instances stance on transracial identities? Another question- do you have racially marginalized mods, and how do they feel about the subject?
The instance stance is that we don’t allow people to undermine other folks identities. Transmeds think they’re doing the “right thing” for trans folk because they think that they’re protecting the “real” trans folk. People who want to undermine non binary identities, people who want to undermine therian identities etc, people who want to undermine neopronoun users, will always have a reason for it, often based around acceptability in the eyes of broader cishet society.
Just because you think there is a good reason to undermine those specific identities doesn’t make it ok. You and I, and anyone else is not the arbiter of anyones identities except their own, and the moment you feel that you do get to have an opinion on the validity of someone elses identity, is the moment you have put yourself above them.
There are absolutely trolls who will misuse this kind of acceptance. But even that doesn’t make it ok for you or I to install ourselves as arbitrators of other folks identity. The answer to the trolls doesn’t change just because they’re trolling by bad faith use of identity. The answer still remains that you remove them when they’re trolling becomes apparent. But on this instance, that removal is done in a way that doesn’t empower folk looking for excuses to invalidate others.
Basically I don’t think otherkin or transracial identities are related to being transgender.
I wrote more extensively on my thoughts on otherkin identities in this comment.
I wrote more about transracial identities in this comment.
And in general, it is a good idea to respect people’s self-identity even if you feel skepticism about its validity - I don’t have to know someone has 100% figured themselves out and has the self-awareness to back up their identity claims. This goes for cis people as well as trans people. Whatever skepticism I feel can remain private so I don’t cause that person any distress, and so I remain polite and respectful.
I do believe non-binary, gender-fluid, and agender people are natural variations and are “valid” as much as binary-gendered people, the science and evidence does not really contradict these identities and only seems to affirm their existence.
In cases of the neo-Nazi who identified as a woman, I know this is a major controversy but if there are reasons to believe they are earnest in their identity it should be respected, even if they are despicable. How we know if someone is being earnest is harder, it’s a way trolls exploit this respect of self-identity. So we look at a troll’s other behavior to help us gauge, and we judge them for their other behavior, not their identity.
All bodies contain the ability to differentiate into what we know as male and female, to varying degrees and in various mixtures. Transgender is just a medical variation in how this normally plays out and spans times and cultures, whereas these other things don’t really have a similar basis.
Which of these should be contested and which should be validated?
Identities don’t really need to be either validated or contested, especially if the person didn’t ask for it. Validation will likely win you more friends, though.
Obv use their preferred names and pronouns to be respectful, as with any person. But beyond that, there’s really no need to get involved in their identity at all. It’s a deeply personal thing and it’s unlikely they’ll change it for anyone other than themselves.
Do you have dysphoria hoodies suitable for hot weather? If so, where can I get them?
That would be the dysphoria flannel shirt
My sibling, what you need is a sun jacket! They’re very light, breathable, and baggy. I got mine at REI but it was kind of pricy since I try to do as close to Buy It For Life as possible, and there are more affordable ones out there.
Are puppygirls more of a local thing, or a worldwide thing? And what are the criteria for being one? Does it have significant crossover with the pup/petplay community?
not sure I can speak to this, not really directly related to trans folks either
As far as I know, pup/petplay is an outgrowth of queer male leather with leather pups being the prototype. Ponyplay has similar roots, probably a little more tradionally het. A fair amount of it, especially in porn, is just female submissive cishet roleplay. There is also overlap with furries.
It is relatively common in the straight-ish kink and leather communties in the US. There are leather pups all over gay leather. I can’t speak to the lesbian communties.
If you’re in the US, get involved with your local bdsm/kink community. Saw a girl come out as a hu-cow for the first time at a recent event.
Questions mostly directed to FtM if possible:
I’m non-binary/transmasc, would I qualify for top surgery/sterilization as is or do I have to fully commit to HRT? Who do I even talk to about this? Will I get resistance from medical professionals?
Unfortunately, I live in the US and my health insurance is UHC. Do I have a snowballs chance in hell of getting gender affirming care covered by them?
I have exactly one question which I’ve never found the right venue to ask, and because it’s about the internal experience, I would need to ask several trans people to get a picture:
When you meet someone who has your deadname, do you experience an initial reaction like you would meeting someone who has your ex’s name?
For me it’s somewhere between that and hearing the name of a dead family member that I had a complicated relationship with.
Neat side note, not all trans people have a dead name. One of my friends had a gender neutral birth name and he just kept it. Some people get all the luck 😂
Yes, but that name is so distant to me that it no longer feels like it ever belonged to me. At best, it was borrowed.
I met two people with my dead name and a third who used the nickname I used to (think Christina/Tina) all in the same job. I thought it would be weird, but I realized that I never identified with those names, I just used them because it was expected.
I imagine it’s different for other people, but that’s how it has been for me
That wasn’t as much my experience but I never really distinctly disliked the name I used before transitioning, it just wasn’t what I needed at the time
That being said, my relationship with gender has ended up being very messy, and I now go by a different spelling of the name I used as a kid, so whether I fit into the umbrella of “trans” is complicated
I just started working at a new place, and my closest coworker has my deadname. Threw me for like half a second, but hasn’t been an issue at all otherwise.
Yes.
hm, no - I don’t think it works that way for me, anyway.
My deadname felt very much like “me” and I lived as the wrong gender for decades, so one of the ways I adapted to that was to implicitly think about my deadname as not a man’s name, so when I met other guys with the name I had this horrible feeling like they shouldn’t have my name, and that’s not what I’m like, and so on.
When I transitioned and took a different name, the deadname within a few months started to lose its gender-neutral sense for me, and it’s like the name went back to being a male name without that dissonant feeling - which led me to mostly feel repulsed that I ever went by that name. It feels so wrong that I was ever called that, and so when I see or meet people with my deadname it’s mostly just a reminder of those feelings - that I went through this awful experience, but also that I’m so relieved I’m not that anymore (a kind of affirmation, in a way).
Is that what it’s like to meet someone with your ex’s name?
