I’m writing this as someone who has mostly lived in the US and Canada. Personally, I find the whole “lying to children about Christmas” thing just a bit weird (no judgment on those who enjoy this aspect of the holiday). But because it’s completely normalized in our culture, this is something many people have to deal with.
Two questions:
What age does this normally happen? I suppose you want the “magic of Christmas” at younger ages, but it gets embarrassing at a certain point.
And how does it normally happen? Let them find out from others through people at school? Tell them explicitly during a “talk”? Let them figure it out on their own?
Let it be an exercise in critical thinking. I knew from a young age that Santa wasn’t real. Kids talk. Mom still gives us presents from Santa, 39 years later.
I have 3 kids. I’ve never lied to them about Santa. I’ve always told them that the idea behind Xmas was kindness and giving and left it at that, and that the whole Santa thing was just a fun story to play along with, like the tooth fairy or social equality.
Damn, hitting them hard with reality at the end there lol
We have 2 kids, and never said that Santa was real and that some of our friends believed that it was the ‘birth’ of a scarred person to them - we talked about solstice etc. The second of our kids had an unwavering belief in Sant until about a month a go - then she accused us of lying to her that Sant was real - some battles you just cant win
All right," said Susan. “I’m not stupid. You’re saying humans need… fantasies to make life bearable.”
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
“Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—”
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
“So we can believe the big ones?”
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
“They’re not the same at all!”
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME…SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
“Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what’s the point—”
MY POINT EXACTLY.
What’s this from? Thought it was Terry pratchett to begin with but not sure who Susan is if so
Then they go tell all their friends lol
Are you referring to santa and elves or the birth of Christ?
My 5yo daughter appreciates santa et.al. as a cheeky fun fantasy just like the easter bunny and tooth fairy. I never tried to convince her that any of it it real.
We even have an elf on a shelf that she looks far every morning with great enthusiasm but if someone gets weird about she says “its just a toy ok”
It’s not a toy, honey. It’s a tool of the police state.
When they directly ask you, you tell the truth, doesn’t matter the age. They probably won’t ask until well into elementary school. Here is an interesting Psychology Today article about lying to your kids about Santa. To sum it up, not really harmful. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-nature-deception/201912/should-you-lie-kids-about-santa
I still remember when I asked my mom about Santa, she replied, “It’s what you believe in your heart.”
What the hell? He either exists or he doesn’t. That was the second I stopped believing.
First, prove Santa Claus doesn’t exist and then we can talk about your opinions.
I think a key observation in my childhood, was that adults don’t generally know what’s best, or right, or even what’s true. Intentions mattered more than some arbitrary ‘correct’ behavior. I figure all children work this out at some level, faster than we’re willing to acknowledge :D
So I guess yeah, it is a bit weird, but that doesn’t make it bad. Maybe the best we can do is suggest parents hold their children’s best interests at heart, and do what’s best for their specific situation.
adults don’t generally know what’s best, or right, or even what’s true. Intentions mattered more
this is why I’m so damaged
By truth do you mean that Santa doesn’t exist, that the whole Christmas celebration is an adaptation of Roman pagan traditions, or that Jesus never existed?
Jesus probably did exist, but he probably didn’t commit miracles.
Exactly. Also, fun fact: If I recall correctly, there were a lot of religious preachers/prophets at the time. A good example is John the Baptist. Why do you think he baptised Jesus? So Jesus could now be a member of John’s church/cult/club/group/whatever. My personal headcannon (i.e I don’t have evidence to back it up but it just makes a lot of sense) is that Jesus learned how to lead a religion by example from John the Baptist and used that to grow his own religious group. And if it wasn’t for the crucifixion, Jesus’s religious group would have never grown to be so popular that it eventually spread throughout the Roman Empire. Now, I’m guessing the resurrection got added to the story either because Jesus was still alive when removed from the cross and then nursed back to health, or because someone saw him before the crucifixion and somehow got into his head that the time they saw Jesus was after the crucifixion and the story spread mouth to mouth, changing over time. Of course, as it turns out that was among main topics of discussion during the Council of Nicaea: should Jesus be perceived as human or as divine?
If you read the text carefully, no one saw him alive after the crucifiction. Just some lights and some stuff magically moved around when no one was looking. No reason for him to have survived, if his followers were fast and quiet etc.
But yeah, there are several possible “sons of god” at the time. Jesus is just a confabulation of them.
Well, idk about “sons of god” but there were certainly many many prophets at the time. Jesus wasn’t anything special (if he was, in fact, real, and not just an amalgamation of multiple popular prophets at the time)
Source?
Exactly. There is about as much proof of Jesus of Nazareth existing as there is of King Arthur existing.
Saying “he probably did exist” is like saying “my dog probably speaks English to his fellow dogs.” It is meaningless without objective evidence.
People tend to say “he probably did exist” simply to hedge their bet or to not go against the grain of the mainstream belief system. I, for one, have been provided no objective evidence (by claimants such as religionists) of the existence of such a person and therefore I have no reason to accept the mainstream belief of his existence.
Agreed. People don’t take into account the fact that historians have existed for a long time and probably would have noticed a person as revolutionary as the one mentioned in the gospels - miracles or not. The Romans were excellent record keepers, and that is how we know for a fact - for example - that Herod’s timeline does not jibe with the virgin birth myth, nor did the Roman survey methodology jibe with the Bethleham journey myth, to cite two examples among so many others
In a modern survey of Jesus is Definitely Real and Was The Son of God and Died and Rose Again for Our Sins scholars, they unanimously believe that Jesus was real.
Do not argue against it. It’s on Wikipedia. Those are the guys who were cited, so he’s real.
Silly me - wondering if there was a contemporary, unbiased historian who maybe could have heard of him
You stole the words right out of my mouth. Thanks for saving me the time to type that comment.
Santa doesn’t exist? Why am I just now finding this out?
The sooner you can tell your kids God’s not real, the better. Just make sure you tell them it’s not their job to explain that to their peers.
Unless you meant Santa. In which case the same applies.
My parents always told me the “truth” about Christmas: it’s Jesus’ birthday, and Santa Claus is a lie from the devil meant to turn you away from God.
I grappled with this question for awhile as a young parent. A thing that I noticed about kids is that they are great at make-believe, and they will get endless enjoyment from things that they made up themselves.
So I gave them presents “from Santa”, I filled stockings on Christmas Eve, etc., and we all knew we were playing the Christmas game together. I don’t think there was any lack in wonder or enjoyment.
I also made sure that they knew that some folks take it really seriously and believe Santa is real and everything, and that’s really none of your business so just play along and don’t ruin it for them.
Omg they told you that Santa was a lie from the devil? It always fascinates me when people of Christian faiths don’t know that Santa is Saint Nicholas, the early Christian bishop. I’m glad you found your way to make Christmas fun for your kids!
My kids have always known Santa wasn’t real. We just nonchalantly talk about which adult is going to be santa this year. It’s like playing pretend, and doesn’t make the kids any less excited (but does remove the awkwardness of explaining why it’s ok that a strange old man you don’t know is allowed to come into the house while everyone is sleeping because he is giving you stuff, but other strange old men trying to give you stuff shouldn’t be trusted).
For the telling other kids at school thing, my sister would say that it’s not her responsibility to cover for other parents lying to theig kids. We would each be honest to our kids and let other parent handle their kids.
Just don’t play into it. My parents never did the Santa gifts thing from the beginning. All our gifts were from mom, dad, grandma/grandpa, etc.
I never got a “talk” that I can remember about Santa not being real, it just never was a thing.
No magic was lost for me or my siblings. Christmas was still our favorite holiday of the year. Still had tons of fun decorating, making cookies and gingerbread houses, making gift wishlists, going out to get a tree, putting up lights, getting up early Christmas morning to open gifts, etc.
Most magical time of my life personally as a kid during the season, nothing was lost by not believing in Santa bringing me presents.
Emphasize the important things about the season. It’s about generosity, spreading joy to others, celebrating friends and family that we don’t get to see often, etc. Don’t make it consumeristic. I wish my folks had taken me and my sibs to help at some sort of community function around the holidays. Although as we got into our teens, we would do food drives and toys for tots, etc. Which was good.
As an ex-child, I figured it out on my own at the age of 6. You see, back then, our gifts would be given to us by a Santa Claus in a suit at our kindergarten, and the gifts would be what we wrote letters for with our parents. We would tell our parents, and they would “write” and “send” the letters. Then they would buy, pack, and label the present, and then bring it in to our kindergarten sometime earlier. On one of the last days when we break up for Christmas, the Santa would come to our kindergarten and we would take photos with them and our presents. After that, we would go home with the presents and get the photos soon. Now, as you can clearly see in the picture from the previous year, the santa has a very different beard and suit, far too different to be real. Alongside that, a roll of the same wrapping paper was hidden behind my parents’ wardrobe, and last but not least, my name on the present was written in my mother’s unique and very recognisable handwriting style. Not bad for a 6-year-old, huh?
I was also 6. I received California Games on Nintendo. It has a barcode. I thought, “what the hell does Santa need a barcode for?” Mom tried to tell me the elves couldn’t make video games and I was like yeah right, you fucking bought that.
I was kinda on the opposite end of the spectrum lol. I remained steadfast in engaging with the Santa Claus mythos until a pretty late age despite my parents staight up telling me they were the ones getting me presents, and despite knowing that all evidence pointed to them telling the truth, lol.
Ugh my sister believed until she was 10. When I pointed out that the labels were in mom & dad’s handwriting, she said Santa had a special pen that mimics other people’s handwriting (why? no idea). Like come on dawg you’re in the double digits now, you’ve gotta be smarter than this.
Let them manage on their own. You don’t have to tell serious lies v. “White lies”.
If they ever ask you direct questions… just ask them what they think? And move on.
IMO: the spirit of Santa exist. That’s all that should matter.
If I had kids I’d just do what every parent I know including my own did and let them find out themselves. I feel like it’s more natural that way.
Much like sex, drugs and Rock and Roll, let them find out about it on the playground like the rest of us did…
@WashedOver @Clymene cant stress just how much I disagree here if you’re serious
Parental teaching, while not perfect, is the way to go to atleast lay some groundwork for thigs like sex ed before you step out into world
By the time you reach the playground, its too late and you can easily be taken advantage of
Anyone else, apart from parents, have ulterior motives
