me and my friends used to be regulars in a shitty pub where there was a group of older people who would be in there all day every day.
he was probably double my age but it didn’t stop him coming over to our table and pestering me and some of the other women.
we didn’t go in too frequently but the staff recognised us as regulars. we had to stop because some nasty people would come in on a specific day and one of our group wqs afraid of running into them.
Depends on the person. I think it was more common 20-30 years ago than now in some places.
Such a vague question merits the default It Depends™.
Still is common, most bars have their regulars
Yeah. Few times a week I go to mine to chat with all the locals over two or three beers then head home. It’s a nice way to wind down, be out, and socialise at a really low intensity. No organising is needed, just arrive and there’ll be someone there you know.
That was kind of the point of pubs (public house). A place for the community to meet up in any weather and have a good time together whether games, sharing stories, or having a meal. The smaller the town, the friendlier and more tight the patrons are too. Also great places to frequent when travelling, meeting new locals, getting great travel advice, making friends for the few days you’re there.
Yep, been a while since worked at a place like that, but there was definitely a crowed that would be there most days. This was mid 2000’s. Partly dried up when smoking indoors was banned, I think that was the last straw for a big part of the culture that was already drying up.
I live a block away from my local bar. Go multiple times a week to play pool. There’s a lot of regulars so it’s like hanging out with friends/neighbors.
Idk how common it was but it’s a good example of a “third place”. A spot that isn’t work or home where you can meet and socialize
I wish we could have third places that don’t involve fucking up your body.
Even with NA (low/non-alcoholic) beverages, it’d be nice to have third places that don’t come with an obligation to spend money.
To be clear, I’m not asking for places that ban spending money, but there are third places like parks (eg NYC Central Park) that are destinations in their own right, but one can also spend money there, such as buying stuff and having a picnic on the grass, or bringing board games and meeting up with friends. Or strolling the grounds astride rental e-bikes. Or free yoga.
Where there’s an open space, people make use of it. But we don’t really have much of that in the USA, that isn’t tied up as a parking lot, an open-space preserve (where people shouldn’t tred upon to protect wildlife), or are beyond reasonable distances (eg BLM land in the middle of Nevada).
Parks and libraries are really nice. Most other third places seem to want you to spend money, that’s my experience here in northern Europe anyway.
Also, in places with significant winters (including Northern Europe) parks aren’t an option in winter.
Northern Europe seems like the kind of place that would realize this is a problem and invent some kind of community building which was open in the winter and had a shared kitchen, a stock of board games, a court for indoor sports, etc. That’s certainly not going to happen in the US.
You mean like the YMCA?
Well, definitely not a Christian association.
Nothing religious about the Y anymore. For many years
In Northern Europe, that’s called a library.
The one in Helsinki has board games, media stations for watching films or listening to music, gaming consoles, PCs with design and CAD software, VR rooms, 3D printers and other fabrication machines, conference rooms, study rooms, workshops for fixing things, recording and photo studios, a shared kitchen, a cinema, a playground…Oh, and books.
Wow. My local library mostly has books. No board games. No media stations – there are some (old) computers you can use to browse the web, so I suppose you could watch media there, but it’s set up as a desk, not a couch or something. You can borrow some games, but not game consoles, and there’s definitely not a spot to play the games on-site. Definitely no VR rooms. There’s one branch of the library in the city that has 3d printers. One branch that has a “music editing station” with a music keyboard attached to a computer. One branch has a high quality, large format scanner for scanning historic docs. Definitely no kitchen or playground.
The idea still seems to be that libraries are supposed to be quiet places where you can read books or study. Any media is meant to be consumed with headphones on, so obviously no shared listening of any kind. They do loan music, video games and movies, but they’re meant to be brought home. You can borrow a lot of musical instruments, but again, there’s no place to play them on-site because the library is a quiet place for reading or studying.
I think it would take a major mental shift for people here to consider libraries as places where you might do something non-quiet, and/or non-serious. And something like cooking on-site would be seen as completely non-librarylike.
The one in Helsinki is separated into 3 floors, 1 of them is for quiet reading.
Everywhere I’ve lived in the US has had plenty of public parks. As a teenager I’d hang out with my friends in them. Hell I’ve been to big community picnics at a park.
The thing is it’s easier to hang out online all the time and people aren’t looking to socialize at parks when there aren’t events.
I’d say the qualities of the average American park leaves much to be desired, when compared to NYC Central Park, San Diego’s Balboa Park, or SF’s Presidio.
In suburban areas, the municipal park tends to be a monoculture of grass plus maybe a playground, a parking lot, and if lucky, a usable bathroom. Regional parks are often nicer, with amenities like pickleball courts or a BMX park, though asking for benches (not rocks or concrete verges, but actually bench seats) and shade might be a stretch.
My point is that the USA has fewer parks and public squares than it ought to. I don’t mean just a place to go jogging or to push a stroller along, but a proper third space where people actively spend time and create value at. Where street vendors congregate because that’s also where people congregate. A place that people – voluntarily, not by necessity, eg a train station but not to catch a train – would like to be. A destination in its own right, where even tourists will drop by and take in the air, the sights, and the social interactions.
Meanwhile, some parts of the USA actively sabotage their parks, replacing normal park furniture with versions that are actively hostile to homeless people, while alienating anyone that just wants an armrest as they sit down. Other municipalities spend their Parks & Rec funds on the bare minimum of parks, lots that are impractically tiny. Why? Because a public park can be used to exclude registered sex offenders from a neighborhood, leading to the ludicrous situation where whole cities are an exclusion zone. Regardless of one’s position on how to punish sex offenses, the denial of housing and basic existence is, at best, counterproductive.
So I reiterate: the USA might have a good quantity of parks, but not exactly good quality of parks. People will socialize online unless they are given actual options to socialize elsewhere. And IRL options would build value locally, whereas online communities only accrue to the benefit of the platforms (eg Facebook, WhatsApp) they run on.
The problem is in parks everyone is too spread out to talk to strangers. There needs to be a park with a bar to bring everyone together.
Are you talking more indoors as there are a lot of outdoor stuff but only the library and churches are indoor stuff I can think of and in the one case you need to keep quiet so not great for socializing and in the other you have to follow wierd precepts or whatnot.
Church
We need church without religion
Depending on the community near you, Unitarian Universalists sometimes have basically that. I’ve been an atheist since I was four, but I have no problem with other people being religious and it was perfect for me. If you’re the type to be annoyed by people talking about the universe in a way that suggests the supernatural, you might not want to deal with even the UU’s very mild language. When I went as a kid, we learned about volcanoes in Sunday School, as a gauge for how religious they are.
Or if you want evil church without religion, can I interest you in crossfit?
I jokingly asked my wife if she’d go to basically church but reading from Marx instead and despite neither of us being marxists it actually sounded like something we’d go to
But also seriously look into if you have a local community center or library and what events they host. Stuff like that often struggles to find attendees
I do think there’s a special thing about church that is this bigger than yourself experience that you share with your community that just isn’t quite replicated in events like art clubs or whatever, volunteering is probably closer
It’s the fact that church comes with an actual presupposition that it isn’t optional, while de facto being optional.
Going to church (in contexts where denomination shopping isn’t a thing at least) means going to a place where a person is not there to validate your particular perspective but instead often to tell you and everyone else in the group to do better, publicly, not because they’re better but because they appeal to higher principles whose correctness is taken for granted buly the congregation.
See also: the absolute brain lottery winners on the internet bitching that the pope isn’t a real catholic for telling them they’re bad catholics (arguably bad christians in general, definitely bad people) for dehumanising poor people and immigrants legal and illegal.
I’m far from a catholic (that is, I’m actually a lapsed catholic if you ask the church, but I was never a believer, just born into it) but there just isn’t a space where you’re going to participate, respect the ethics and morals, still fall short of them, be chastised, and be forgiven, that doesn’t involve some religious aspect.
I do think there’s a special thing about church that is this bigger than yourself experience
I’m pretty sure that’s only the case if you’re a believer. And, in general, people who aren’t believers don’t go to church, so you’re selecting for a group of people who want to believe in something bigger than themselves.
There are several non religious ethical groups to spend time with.
I tried to get you links but I ran out of time before having to do other responsibilities.
That’s like a car without wheels
We have those. They’re called boats.
That’s not a car
People downvote, but you’re not wrong and it’s probably the most common example in rural areas
It’s just an example- I’m not saying it’s the only alternative. Although the declining church attendance possibly causes people to seek third places (although I believe the declining church attendance is that it’s more socially acceptable to be a non believer these days. Would rather if someone come to Church that they’d be at least open to believing)
Even if you find one where there isn’t an emphasis on tithes or donation, that’s not exactly a space set up for public socializing. It’s a private space, used by a dedicated and defined group, for socializing within that group. Outsiders may be welcome, but they’re only welcome within that structure.
Aye, was just an example.
Okay, it was a bad one.
Okay then. Forest heroin den.
Depends, lots of churches welcome lay members of the community to the ancillary activities they organise. Catholic churches in my experience are much more embedded in their communities in southern europe regardless of the status of the people participating.
My father has been lapsed for 40+ years, never shows up for church and doesn’t participate in any of the religious aspects but he still runs free arts and crafts workshops in the parish buildings, for the local kids whether they’re part of the congregation or not.
Honestly I’m cool with fucking up my body to have a good time, I just wish it didn’t cost me $200 for the privelege.
Check your library. They do all kinds of activities.
I should tbh
I regularly do. They are 95% for parents to dump their kids for a few hours, and the the rest manage to suck even more.
Hacker/makerspace.Coffee/tea shops. Library. Community Center.
Your local gym? CrossFit box? Football/soccer club? Community centre? Library? Outdoor? Scouts?
Community center and library sure, I wouldn’t really consider the rest a third space.
Depending on the gym, some are a lot more third-spacey than others. I’ve been to a smaller gym where people just hang around after their workouts to socialize, with occasional impromptu dinner outings when the gym closed for the night. I miss that place. You still meet people at bigger commercial gyms, but it’s not the same.
Public libraries are great third places. Larger ones often have classes, groups, and social clubs. And you’ll meet like-minded people just by becoming a regular.
For the non religious, that’s where clubs like the Shriners, or Lions come in. Social clubs that don’t revolve entirely around alcohol
It used to be the Mall. It was always a place to hang out, meet friends, window shop, eat, see a movie, etc.
When I was a kid, the local mall even included the local library. I thought that was a great idea, but I never saw another mall with a library.
May I introduce you to your lord and savior Jesus Christ? He’s got a third place for you.
N o
😂
On the reals, I have an atheist friend who started volunteering at a church literally for this reason. I totally understood where he was coming from. If I didn’t have a family and wanted a way to spend time with other people, I’d probably do the same.
Yeah I mean I have family who’ve worked at them before, I get it but I can’t support something I feel causes so much harm
I’ve never heard of a concept of a third place. Seems like everybody should have one.
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It still is. There’s bars like that in every town.
Yes, my dad was one of them. I haven’t gone to a bar for years but it used to be most smaller bars had at least a few regulars that basically lived there. I remember one old vet that used to show up every day as soon as the bar would open for his daily fix… It got to the point the bar refused to serve him, so he would try and get unsuspecting customers to buy them for him. (This was in the 70’s and 80’s, there were (or at least seemed to be) a lot more alcoholics back then.)
Also booze used to be a LOT cheaper, so it wasn’t nearly as expensive as it would be now.
I remember stories from my dad about a guy he knew where the bar maid would have to help him with the first drink in the morning because his hands would shake so much.
The romantic history of the happy drunk is almost entirely fictional. I say almost because I know a few people who are able to take it or leave it, but for the most part the people I know/knew who were drinking either in bunches or daily end up complete and unabridged alcoholics, whether they are active and in serious trouble or have sought help and straightened up, but cannot touch it.
I’m one of the rare happy drunks. Don’t drink often, I’m an extremely quiet person usually. But get a few beers in me and my wife says I won’t shut up but she also says it’s the only time she gets to talk to me. I don’t know why, I can’t hold a conversation when I’m sober. Never know what to talk about, my work life is boring so nothing interesting ever happens.
When I have a few, it’s likeeverything just starts coming out.
You sound very much like me.
When sober I’m Mr doesn’t talk a lot (but I will listen) after a beer or two I’m away with the chat.
I become become very vocal…
Yeah, I wouldn’t want to spend that much everyday, I’ll just have some beers at home for 1/5th the price
The extra price was so they weren’t drinking alone, or to avoid going home.
I’ve never been a big drinker but I have a few places around me where beer is $3. And the actual place my wife and I go if we do feel like drinking is our local VFW. I can get a 24 oz frosty on tap for like 2.50. and a jack and coke for 3. Last time we went out drinking spent like $30 total and we were both drunk
Damn - I’m in Seattle and it’s rare to find $6 drafts anymore.
Dude managed to get a parenthetical inside a parenthetical, respect
I remember one old vet that used to show up every day as soon as the bar would open for his daily fix… It got to the point the bar refused to serve him
So he’d go to this bar during business hours to drink. And this went on to the point where they stopped serving him? Something is missing from the middle of this story…
Sorry If I didn’t explain that right… the guy was drinking non-stop every single day, to the point you could physically see his liver was shutting down because of his yellowish color. So the bar didn’t have much choice and had to cut him off. He was an awesome old guy so no-one wanted to boot him, but if he drinks himself to death the bar would be potentially liable for still serving him so they chose to stop.
Yes, but bear in mind a lot of factory, construction, and industrial jobs are 7-3 or 8-4. So a working class laborer could go catch a happy hour with the coworkers or neighbors and be home by 5.
Also in the age of single income households men were often not expected to pull as much weight at home.
You guys are only working 8hrs? What a life to have. The company I use to work for extended their store hours in 6pm so 8-6 was typical with no overtime pay. Woww saying this out loud really makes me want to unionize.
Found the American.
In case you want real data rather than personal biases, the average us employee works fewer hours than the average new Zealander (or +62hr/yr ~1 hr/week if you use the oecd data). In neither dataset is the US at the top. New Zealand, Australia, and the US are all wayyy above the German/french crowd, though.
Even if the germans are taking two months off they’re still only working 6 hr/day, which explains their pay (american engineers seem to follow the pattern of 1-it sucks here->2-what about europe->3-actually, I will accept getting 3x pay for more work).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours
Did this (Mon-Sat) together with a few friends and colleagues in my late 20s. We were regulars to the point of the cook always making something off menu more fitting for regular dinner, as well as no need to settle the bill every night. Once a month everything was tallied up.
Good times. Had to stop though since I found myself going through the fridge on a Sunday once looking for some alcohol.
edit: This was the tail end of the 90s btw, small town in Sweden
Had to stop though since I found myself going through the fridge on a Sunday once looking for some alcohol.
I had a similar experience except I’d open the fridge before work and instinctively grab a beer or start to grab one before I realized I was just there for creamer.
I live in a tiny NE college town where that happens but for breakfast at a dive coffeeshop. It’s loud, packed, the food and coffee are meh, but every single day I can walk in there and see 5-10 locals eating breakfast and shooting the breeze. There’s cliques who always sit together, and social butterflies who pick a different group every morning. A bottomless mug of coffee is $3, so folks will just come and hang out from like 8-11am. It’s great fun.
There’s a brewery next door that’s often busy at night but generally it’s a quiet town so folks are home chilling after dinner.
That sounds awesome.
It really is the dream
I like that in the US, New England (NE) is in the North East (NE).
Could be Nebraska.
It is, but they used to be NB.
New Brunswick?
It used to be a place for the working stiffs to gather and was priced accordingly. Nowadays capitalization has been overused to the point where a lot of businesses are pricing themselves out of customers.
An average draft goes for $7-11 dollars in my city. And the $11 drafts are served in a smaller chalice than the cheaper stuff. I usually buy a 12 pack of beer for $24 from the store and get drunk at home when I can afford it.
Holy fuck! Even today you can get a 30 pack of average beer like bud Budweiser for 25 ish.
Back in the day I paid 3 a point for some cheap ass.
I’m buying IPAs they taste better to me and still feel like a bang for the buck, I grab a pack of Bell’s
Yeah, I used to finish work, walk down to my local pub, have dinner and a few drinks then go home to bed, good meals, good people to talk to, I kinda miss it but I don’t drink anymore.
My uncle was a factory worker and a daily regular at his favorite local bar for more than 30 years.
My mom wouldn’t allow me to go inside the bar (because drinking alcohol is a sin, you know). But in the '80s and '90s, before cell phones, I knew exactly where to find him after school if I needed anything.
Unfortunately, 30+ years of excessive drinking caused a lot of really serious health problems that caught up to him when he was in his 50s. The owners and staff sent a huge flower arrangement and all came to his funeral.
A sin? Lol what? Jesus turned water into wine, the fucking madlad!
I’m an outlier because I live in a walkable neighborhood in a city. But I have 10 breweries within walking distance around my house. I know the owners by name for 2 of these breweries and the bartenders know me for 4 of them. I think they all know my dog.
I usually go with my wife and/or girlfriend about 2-4 days a week, but it’s still very much a hang out.
We’re also Friday regulars to a semi-close bar every Friday because I won a free beer/week for a year in a $25 raffle!
I usually go with my wife and/or girlfriend
Ok, sorry. I just wanted to post that finally. Also, I was remembering that one clip that always gets put in compilations about that guy and his wife and her bf. Anyway, carry on.
Being polyam in Seattle is great. All of my coworkers know I’m poly and just accept it. All the bartenders know too. Makes it easy for them to start the tab.
But does your wife have a bf?
Not yet! I think she thinks I’m already enough to handle 😂
You have a wife and a girlfriend AND you can afford to go to a bar every night? Must be nice to be in the 1%! 😉
Tech jobs in Seattle go crazy! We make ends meet since we all have some kinda job. Not too crazy since we’re still renting. But eventually we want to be permanent in. Seattle!
You want to Settle in Seattle? 😸
With a wife and an and/or-girlfriend I don’t think he’s settling at all…!
😹 It’s such a great city. I love everything about it!
If they all have jobs, they can split fixed costs liking housing or a shared car across 3 people instead of 2. Or more - the OC only mentioned a wide and gf, but there could be more people in the polycule.
I watched a documentary about “bar culture” in the 60es and 70es where i live. Shit was pretty wild. Dudes talked about going to the bar like people talk about video games these days. “Oh yeah, on a good week i’m here 40 to 48 hours” what doesn your wife think about it? “She’s not excited, but you know…”
I saw an old video about when they made it illegal to drink and drive and dudes are like “they’re taking away my freedom! It’s my business if I wanna go to the bar and grab a couple beers after work before heading home! Im not hurting anyone!” It’s crazy how casual getting nightly drunk and driving home was in those days
I don’t think it’s crazy at all. The US in particular still has basically no real mass transit and bars everywhere. Everyone knows there is still drinking and driving going on. Certainly not all those people are calling ubers.
Edit- crazy to believe. Certainly is crazy to do.
Im sure there are plenty of towns in rural America that still follow the “boys will be boys/go home and sleep it off” mentality with drunk driving and good ole boy crime in general
Wel…if you’re white anyways. Nothing is more American than selective enforcement of laws.
Five and drive, baby
My dad’s friends often claim that’s what destroys restaurants. You can’t even go and get hammered and drive home.
Yeah, not drinking would be pure insanity, i could never. Imagine spending time with friends sober.
It is kinda crazy how different the times were. In the same documentary, they also touched on immigrants and how they also like to hang out in bars. One guy casually said something like: well i some people don’t hate these Spaniards, and some people just want them dead.
Yeah, not drinking would be pure insanity, i could never. Imagine spending time with friends sober.
I just got off the phone with my kid at college and he was complaining that part of a group of his friends never hang out sober. It still happens.
He doesn’t drink so that’s a part of his social life he still needs to figure out, but he’s been taking exploration hikes instead: 18 miles today!
Not drinking is not easy, especially that age. I stpped drinking when i was almost 30. I thought that’s just a thing that you’re not doing, no big deal. A lot of people find it VERY weird. You wouldn’t believe the conversations i had especially with drunk people. “You don’t drink? Like never?” “Never ever?” “But how?”
I had to literally explain to people what i do instead of drinking and how to order a water in a bar. Ot that a glass of wine is also alcoholic, that i know i can drink a beer and still drive, that one glass is okay, that i don’t care how “good” it is, that i don’t drink even if you don’t even taste the alcohol. It never ends. And just like religion, you can’t just say because it’s dumb and you’re kinda proof of it right now.
