Wow this post got popular. I got called into work and didnt see the replies, sorry ladies and gentlemen! Trying to catch up tonight.
I don’t write off a whole breed, but I will say that my niece got her face seriously ripped up by a pit bull, and I have a friend who raised a pit bull from a puppy, devoted thousands of dollars and professional hours into her training and socialization, and she still bit someone simply for entering her house. I am leery of the breed.
Everyone I know who has been bit by a dog it was either a pitbull, pit mix, or chihuahua. And I’m not exactly worried about the severity of a chihuahua bite.
I was bitten by an English bull terrier puppy. So now you know someone else.
Bull terrier
You mean the breed that pitbulls were made out of?
Also puppies are a lot less of a worry than grown dogs.
No English bull terriers are smaller, not the American kind.
Pitbulls were bred from bull terriers to be a bigger version. So it’s not surprising a different breed of terrier is also prone to biting.
I was bitten by a golden retriever when I was 12. It looked friendly so I went to pet it, and it sunk a canine into my arm. I was just unlucky (and slightly stupid) though, and it didn’t rip my face off, so I think I did ok overall.
A German shepherd also tried to bite me when passing it on a narrow path, but it just shredded my jacket pocket.
A Yorkshire terrier also had a go at me once, but didn’t make it through denim jeans.
I got bit by an English mastiff. That wasn’t a fun experience at 6.
If I were to be attacked by a dog the last one I’d choose is a pitbull or any muscular mastiff. They’re dangerous because they have the highest potential for damage.
And my wife’s hairdresser has a vizla that bit her daughter’s face and caused her to get 100+ stitches and she’ll be scarred forever. Dogs can bite without warning regardless of the breed.
What’s there to be leery about? These dog breeds were bred for one thing and it sure wasn’t to be the perfect family dog.
Well no, that’s where you’re wrong. Human aggression was a trait that was absolutely bred out of these dogs.
Please go read up on how the American fighting pitbull dog was created, managed, trained, etc. Before throwing out bs online.
Well I did and it literally states in the first paragraph of the history of Pit Bulls on Wikipedia:
The bull-and-terrier was a breed of dog developed in the United Kingdom in the early 19th century for the blood sports of dog fighting and rat baiting
So I feel, idk, that you got some reading to do…
Oh how cute, you read a paragraph on Wikipedia…
Well what fucking sources do you have lmao?
Well I’ll just start with a top search result when looking for their history…
https://pitbulls.org/article/brief-history-american-pit-bull-terrier
I have owned and read about these dogs for decades, I don’t have nor am I going to go find all of the sources I’ve read over that time. I can tell you that you are incorrect in your assumption about the breed, as are virtually every other person who hates these dogs.
People like you are historically not worth talking to, you will deny any sources or information that I provide because you have already made your mind up about the breed.
I’ll leave you with this: this breed was created by humans, is in a constant state of misery because of humans, and is persecuted by humans because of human behavior.
These dogs are not at fault. But ignorance is rife with folks like yourself. I hope you actually put effort into learning their history but I know you won’t.
So no sources, nothing, what a pointless discussion.
I’ve spent a decent amount of time around about a dozen pit bulls and never saw/heard of any issues with any of them. All but 1 were very sweet dogs and even he wasn’t being aggressive beyond making it clear that I was not to enter the property (growling and barking same as many other dogs would do) when we first met. After his owner showed up and we got acquainted with each other he was fine too. On the other hand I’ve been bitten by half the dachshunds I’ve met.
On the flip side of the argument, I have a pit mix and she’s the sweetest thing in the world. Never has bitten anything other than a toy, and she doesn’t even bark unless she gets the zoomies while playing. She’s been great with my 2 year old nephew, too. Got her from the shelter when she was about a year and a half old. She’s 50% pit, so I feel like if it was genetic she’d be way more aggressive.
Obligatory dog pic:
The amount of lack of self awareness in this post…
My gun never misfires. Don’t ban guns from kindergartens.
posted on an article where a kid accidentally gets shot
Big difference: mix
It’ll rip your face off, while looking cute!
I don’t write off a whole breed,
I can. They are a non-natural breed created by people for cruel purposes and should be eradicated.
Yeah. They were literally bred to be as vicious as possible.
We can write them off. I don’t blame the dogs, I blame the people who made them this way.
In the US, Pit Bulls caused 65% of dog bite deaths between 2005 and 2016.
About 15 years ago I volunteered with a pitbull rescue, then did a bunch of research on pitbull attacks in grad school. The problem then was that most statistics like this were unreliable once you saw what they labeled a pitbull. In most cases it was just any “mutt” was considered a pitbull. I don’t know if things have changed, never really looked into it since then, but I’m still a bit wary of stats like this without knowing their data is accurate.
My little dog doesn’t have an ounce of pitbull in her. Her mom was a border collie/lab mix, and the Father was the Neighbor’s boston terrier/english pointer mix. The only thing remotely pitbull like about her is her underbite. That said, I’ve lost count of the times somebody at the dog park, usually someone with a little ankle biter dog of the teacup persuasion, has gotten uppity about me having a “pitbull” off leash. People are dumb.
People are dumb
That about sums it up
It doesn’t help that a lot of strays/rescues have a good chunk of pit bull blood in them.
Both of my dogs are rescues from programs in the southern US. One of them certainly seems to have some pit in him…beautiful brindle coat, block head, incredibly strong jaw, stocky-muscular build. He’s dumb as a bag of rocks but incredibly loyal and affectionate. Because of the stigma around pits, though, I’m afraid to get him DNA tested.
Actually it’s more likely a pitt is labeled incorrectly like a lab etc to get them adopted to people too ignorant to know better. So that’s gonna invalidate that statement.
In most cases it was just any “mutt” was considered a pitbull.
Seems like an issue specific to wherever you went to school.
Most rational people would immediately draw clear separations between mutts and pitbulls or pitbull mixes.
I don’t think this comment is indicative of the problem at all.
Curious where you went to school though, lol. Might want to get a refund for that degree.
I remember when climate change deniers were not sure about the science either…
Being skeptical of data and their sources is a fundamental part of science.
And it’s probably worse if you do rate by breed.
But I suspect that it’s mostly due to a combination of breed and neglect/non-training. The kind of people who want a pit bull in particular, and the kind of people who just chain up their dog outside and never train or socialize it, probably have significant overlap.
Source?
This site is an advocacy group for breed specific legislation.
And it’s all very well cited. Makes sense why an advocacy group exists for this
The National Rifle Association will offer a very well cited claim that strict gun laws increase violent crime. The Violence Policy Center will offer a very well cited claim that the opposite is true. Reality is likely more nuanced.
The hole in dog breed bite statistics is usually accurate identification of the breed.
I’d like a good citation on that claim in your second paragraph. I’ve seen that claimed a lot yet I’ve seen nothing to support it.
Maybe I’m missing something, what does this advocacy group stand to benefit from banning pitbulls? The NRA is backed by weapons manufacturers. This seems to be people who actually see a problem and are taking actions to help protect people.
People often hold strong beliefs that are not related to personal gain nor particularly rational. I don’t think their intent is nefarious, but I think it’s likely mistaken.
Not exactly. Studies on this are hard to accurately. In breif, people suck at id breeds, and mort studoes only ask the peraon what breed bit you
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N7F4OfDSvPU&pp=ygUYcmViZWNjYSB3YXRzb24gZG9nIGJyZWVk
Thanks for telling me the same thing people have been parroting for an eternity. Check out Occam’s razor
Yeah that study probably relied on faulty data. Most dog bite data just the person what the breed was.
Did tou know putbull is not 1 breed but 3 different ones.
Most people cant reliably tell an american pitbul from other breeds in a line up.
Actually, “pitbulls” are now well over a dozen different breeds people just randomly consider “pitbulls”
If it’s a stocky mutt with short hair . It’s a pitbull!
IMO, the issue is purely down to their strength and ability to kill a person.
I don’t doubt their temperament is fine, but when an animal has that much power they’re a serious danger in the rare situation that they’re out of control.
I like Jack Russells, I’ve got two, if they were strong dogs and someone said they’re being banned because of it then I wouldn’t mind. Just don’t let them breed any more.
A dog’s a dog. While I have a preference, ultimately I don’t really care what breed I have.
Pugs should be banned as well. A dog’s a dog, not a fashion accessory.
I don’t doubt their temperament is fine
Pits have an incredibly strong prey drive, and once they decide to attack something they almost never stop. So no, they don;t have the best temperament.
Pugs should be banned as well
There’s at least a retro-pug movement now that is working to breed the overly shortened snout out of pugs, and make them a healthier breed.
It’s so frustrating people don’t seem to understand that pit bulls are just terriers. If you’ve ever seen videos of small terriers working in fields and doing what they’re bred to do, you absolutely see the same behaviours in bully breeds, just magnified ten-fold.
The problem is now you’ve bred a 30lb+ dog that is pure muscle, has been specially bred from breeds with already high prey drive to be more aggressive/protective and are trying to treat it like a family dog.
I love pitties, I think they’re cute and sweet (I’ve also never met a “mean” one), but they have long passed being an “average” household breed at this rate. Years of bad/selective breeding need to be undone before they should be reevaluated and gl with that.
Pugs Bulldogs they should be banned for their health reasons.
That’s part of the issue. The other part is that pits are seen as an aggressive breed, so assholes who want an aggressive dog get a pit, treat it like shit, and wind up with an aggressive dog. Then, being the shit owners they are, they’re typically the ones who let their dogs run loose on the street, or dump them wherever when they become an inconvenience, so you wind up with animal shelters full of aggressive, untrained, unsocialized pits who only further the stereotype.
A dog’s a dog, not a fashion accessory.
Some people will get legitimately mad that you bring up this reality.
They want to be praised for spending thousands of dollars on a purebred that is going to have way more health problems than a mixed breed.
The problem with “don’t ban them but don’t let them breed more” and allow people that have one to just carry on is you just create a potentially lucrative black market for these dogs (in fact you doing that might make them more sought after), which doesn’t actually fix any problems.
Not necessarily advocating killing animals because they’re inconvenient but ultimately if they’re going to be a problem (and it certainly seems like that’s the case) then the sooner they’re banned the less harm is inflicted overall.
Black market for dogs that shouldn’t exist anymore after 10 years? What would you do with a dog you couldn’t take out of the house? Where’s the demand? I can’t imagine pitbull junkies selling everything they own just to get one more pup either
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The issue with pugs is not that they’re evil or bad creatures, it’s that humans have selectively bred them for their looks, but that’s lead to the animals suffering because their breeding means they have massive problems with breathing, their knees, spine, eyes, etc. That’s unfair on the animal.
It’s like saying we want to eliminate genetic diseases like Down’s syndrome or Haemophilia. Nobody’s saying individuals with those conditions are bad, it’s that we don’t think people should be born with conditions that give them a worse life.
Now for dogs it’s a bit more complicated because those conditions are afflicted upon them by us purely for aesthetics, and if dogs are banned that inevitably leads to some being killed which isn’t very fair on those animals, but if we can’t find a way to reverse the worst aspects of their breeding is the only way we can prevent further suffering.
Maybe you should be reincarnated as an abomination that has hip problems and cannot breathe.
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Every owner thinks their dog is a “good one” until it’s too late. They should be required to be neutered and not allowed to breed.
And the dogs too?
Ahhh, the ol lemmy switch-a-roo!
Hold my collar, I’m going in!
Especially the dogs.
Thank God they’re focusing on the worst hardships that are being inflicted on the British people.
if governments weren’t capable of doing more than one thing at a time, all of global civilization would collapse.
Well they’re not doing much about the climate and it feels like global civilization is collapsing, so…
British govt seems to have stagnated for the last 70 or so years.
That is not as strong an argument as it used to be in 2023
Neither is “but what about this?”
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How many breeds does the UK propose to ban?
I mean it sounds like just the one, American XL bully. Seems perfectly reasonable to me given how ridiculously powerful these dogs are makes them extremely dangerous when they’re being aggressive.
People are more dangerous than any dog. Can we ban them on looks too, please?
Oh wait. The US already does this. It’s called “racism.”
Dogs have highly adaptive genetics, and have been selectively bred for millennia. Comparing dogs to humans shows how fucking ignorant you are.
Username checks out
I tell you what, if we specifically genetically engineer people to be aggressive and powerful and they start eating toddlers faces then I’m cool with banning them too.
“Dog racism”, fuck off.
It’s a bad faith argument people make to use people’s morality against them. Pitt owners tend to be conservative nazi types and they think they’re clever trying to use "woke"language
In the sense that humans are responsible for these natural abuses existing, sure. Humans can stop being dangerous in this sense by not breeding these unnatural predators.
Fucking hell. Remind me to stay the hell away from the UK.
We’re better off without you, no fucking worries there mate.
Indeed you are.
These should remind you to stay away from many countries/states:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation#Canada
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation#United_States
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation#Central_and_South_America
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation#Republic_of_Ireland
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation#Other_European_countries
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation#Asia
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed-specific_legislation#Oceania
Good, don’t come over here. We don’t want you here.
These disgusting freaks of nature need banning - I’ve been chased by one before and they are absolutely terrifying.
Depends how many children they kill.
That’s not fair at all.
Sometimes they just maul the children’s faces until they’re permanently disfigured.
Unless it’s the right kind of children. Then the UK would demand everyone get that breed. If only there was a dog specifically associated with massive profits from the slave trade and horrible racism.
I mean fuck the empire but if you’re gonna throw that shit down it feels only fair to mention the part where they also stopped the slave trade using force.
Well, that’s certainly the part they like to talk about constantly isn’t it?
I mean, in the 19th century London was the biggest city in the world, and like most cities was very progressive. If you look back now and judge from our current lens then it looks really conservative but people in the streets campaigned to end slavery, and the British government outlawed slavery across the whole empire and used their very large and impressive navy to enforce these laws. Just because some private individuals made vast profits off of selling slaves to the US doesn’t mean it was legal or even a popular thing.
That certainly is the part they like to talk about constantly isn’t it?
You brought it up. How is slavery in England’s history even relevant to dangerous dog legislation in the UK now? Which I assume isn’t the country you live in.
So they shouldn’t ban dog breeds because racists exist? Weird take.
I pulled a muscle trying to pretzel my brain around that, too.
I’m just curious, when the UK banned pit bulls, did the government just go around and round up everyone’s suddenly illegal dogs and put them all down?
Some of them, yes. They didn’t go hunting them but any complaints or incidents or they find one when investigating some other crime then you can be sure your pitbull would be taken away and destroyed.
I don’t think owners got prosecuted or anything as long as the dog was born before the ban, just the dog taken away. Breeders that continued selling them certainly did get prosecuted though.
Wait, like if a neighbor had a problem with you or something they could just report you have a pit bull and the government would then come and take your pet and kill it?!!?
I mean yeah basically. Same as if you have anything illegal.
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On no, my sweet velvet hippo wouldn’t hurt a fly! Says the pitbull owner as it eats what is left of grandma.
Edit: different terminology… but bullyism is a thing so I’m gonna leave it up.
Bullies are a genetic anomaly that aren’t just pitbulls. For example, Wendy is a somewhat famous bully whippet:
Most responsible breeders don’t allow for pairings that would create it. Mostly because if they get too excited they have heart attacks- their heart can’t keep up.
It should be banned, but not because it makes dogs more violent than they otherwise would be.
Basically it comes from over breeding for muscle mass. It crops up in racing breeds mostly- whippets and greyhounds. But also, apparently, in beef cattle:
More info on Wendy and bully whippet mutation for those curious
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/strongest-dog-in-the-world/
Hippos are extremely dangerous and viscious.
Ugh, please go back to Reddit with that attitude
“Go back to Reddit” is the cringiest thing you can say on Lemmy.
On a public forum? You can kiss my ass.
Jump in a wood chipper feet first instead maybe.
The attitude of a joke?
Ban the breeding of all dogs.
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What about dying breeds like English Setters? Like pandas they need some encouragement or assistance or they’ll die out all together? Given what a good boy my mum’s English is, I say preservation of the breed is worth it.
As in selectively or sterilize all dogs?
As in don’t own and operate puppy mills. Don’t play doctor Frankenstein with your dogs and create abominations. Don’t forcibly impregnate dogs to make them pregnant.
The world of dog breeding is terrible and needs to end. Not the world of dogs just like…casually making puppies. That’s fine.
Puppy mills are terrible. As is breeding brachycephalic dogs like pugs, or particularly inbred breeds.
But working dogs are usually part of a deliberate breeding program for a reason. Seeing Eye, for example, breeds their guide dogs specially. You don’t put random mutts in the Iditarod, nor would you use them as livestock guardians or to herd sheep. That breeding program might or might not involve purebreds, but it definitely involves breeding healthy dogs to purpose.
More to the point, though, what’s wrong with someone getting a couple performance titles on a purebred dog, health testing it, and breeding it to another titled, health tested dog that’s as distantly related as possible?
I feel like you missed the point of the person you’re replying to or maybe replied to the wrong one?
Puppy mills that are for profit and abuse animals are not even close to the market you’re talking about. Seeing eye dogs make great sense for breeding purposes since a person’s life can literally depend on it. Actually both of your examples are when a dog isnt a pet first, their primary role is a job. Those aren’t puppy mill type dogs. Seeing eye dogs are probably not going to be from irresponsible backyard breeders. Work dogs are probably from word of mouth in communities that need them.
The world of dog breeding is terrible and needs to end. Not the world of dogs just like…casually making puppies. That’s fine.
That doesn’t say “only puppy mills need to end”, but that all dog breeding needs to end because puppy mills are shitty, and we should just have casual oops litters instead.
So you think puppy mills are terrible but using and abusing dogs for their labor is perfectly fine? You really supporting Iditarod?
Abusing dogs for labor? No, I don’t agree with that.
Merely using dogs for labor? That’s fine.
Work is mentally simulating and enjoyable for many breeds of dog. A border collie who actually gets to herd sheep is going to have a lot more fun that day than one who just sat on the couch.
Huskies love running. This past March, a rookie fell off his sled and his team ran the 18 miles to the next station without him.
There’s a reason why tons of dog owners do sportified versions of dog jobs for fun.
So then we just let them loose to procreate on their own? Or you saying we should just let the breeds humans create die out, and let the wolves thrive naturally in our society?
I’m not against sterilization or adoption, just breeding.
Yes, we loose them to procreate on their own. “Pure-breeding” often leads to many genetical defects. Dog breeds are not genetically distant enough to he considered species; “mutts” are real dogs.
Good breeders know to keep their genetic stock wider and look out for resessive traits, etc. They’re not the same as puppy farms.
I think that’s an even worse idea. It wasn’t always a good thing, but those dogs have bad traits that we are aware of, and know how to fix through proper fixing dames to studs. We can systematically remove problem breeds that way so that they are healthy, well rounded dog breeds created by a design to undo all of the errors of designer dogs and stupid ass “dog trainers” for fighting has done.
What are the tories doing that they want to distract us from today then?
Cultural question to Brits as this happened in UK. Do people care if their dog attacks someone or is highly agressive to humans in UK?
By what I’ve heard from my friends, dog owners often put the blame on attacked/harassed passers-by, they don’t feel accountable for their wrongdoings (i.e. not using leash and not paying attention to where their dog is and what is it doing).
Over here, especially in urban areas, it’s expected that your dog doesn’t approach others. Aggressive behaviour doesn’t fly. Aggressive dogs on lead are accepted if the owner has complete control, but anything beyond that isn’t ok.
Thanks for feedback. My friend had numerous occasions where he ended up with dog attacking him in parks in urban areas, this is why I’m curious about it. They’re affraid of the dogs in general so situations like this make them anxious for next days. From their experience, dog owners were often behaving like real twats even in clear situations such as being bitten by a free running large dog(s)without close supervision.
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Thanks for the feedback. This is exactly what I’ve been hearing from friends that had problems with dogs in UK. They usually described this issue as dog having more rights to do whatever it wants than people.
At the risk of pissing off the UK anti-dog chuds; it seriously makes me wonder how people in the UK are treating their dogs that’d cause them to act like this. I’ve known several people with pitbulls throughout my life. My dad had one as a child. None of those pitbulls ever hurt someone, but then again, none of them were beaten, abused (afaik), or trained as attack/home defense dogs. While I know pitbulls are different from an “American Bully XL” (damn, I love dog breeds that sound like marketing company named them), they’re pretty similar. If anything, a pitbull is more aggressive than a bully, so it would have been more likely for any of the pitbulls to suddenly “”“snap”“” and start attacking people for no reason.
They never did.
In fact, despite pitbulls being legal in the US, I’ve never personally heard of someone being attacked by one. I know it happens, I’ve heard about it in the news, but no one I’ve talked to has ever had an issue with a pitbull or known someone who has.
The only conclusion I’ve come to is that either the UK has a culture which encourages beating or abusing your dog to discipline them (causing them to eventually lash out), or (the more likely of the two) is that the dogs are being trained as attack dogs. That means it really shouldn’t be surprising to anyone when an attack dog, well, fucking attacks a human.
YOU TRAINED THEM TO FUCKING DO THAT YOU DUMBASS HUMAN SHITHEAD AND THEN YOU HAVE THE BALLS TO ACT SURPRISED WHEN THEY DO WHAT YOU TRAINED THEM TO DO.
Don’t blame the dog, blame the asshole who trained them. If your dog attacks another person and maims or kills them, you should be the one held accountable. You should be taken to court and tried as if you shot or stabbed someone. Maybe the UK already does that, but if not, I wonder how many people would still train dogs to attack an intruder or (aggressively) defend their home if they knew they could be locked away for 1st degree murder or treated like a mass shooter if their attack dog goes on a rampage.
Advocating to ban a dog breed because humans are pieces of shit is like saying we should ban climate activism because some climate activists engage in eco-terrorism.
The dogs were bred to be incredibly violent and dangerous. Pointers point, herders herd, and pits and bullies fucking kill.
citation needed
It’s in the name numbnut, Pit bull, it’s a pit fighter dog.
Bullies actually weren’t. They were bred to be strong, but another goal was to for the breed to have a lowered prey drive.
The reason why they’re so dangerous is because if one does become aggressive, then it is more than capable of completely ripping you apart. There are, however, breeds of dogs designed to defend livestock and homes (attacking intruders like animals or humans), but most of those are very rarely banned because they’re typically trained by a professional instead of a random chav who wants a dog to boost his ego because he can’t own a gun. Some examples are: Komondors, Great Pyrenees, Tibetan Mastiffs, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Doberman Pinschers, and yes, Pitbulls (but not bullies).
Any dog can be trained to be aggressive (except maybe golden retrievers). Any dog can be mishandled, abused, beaten, or otherwise conditioned to lash out at someone. Stop blaming the dog and instead blame the human. The dog does what it’s been trained to do and if it’s been improperly trained, then it will appear to act erratically and lash out at random people, regardless of whether they’re a threat.
American Bully XL
Dog breed or energy drink?
McDonald’s order. “I’ll have the American Bully XL, please, with a diet soda as I’m watching my figure.”
Advocating to ban a dog breed because humans are pieces of shit is like saying we should ban climate activism because some climate activists engage in eco-terrorism.
I’d love for you to try to explain that simile.
I was trying to come up with a simile that people would be upset about. If I said, “it’s like saying we should ban Republicans because of the white supremacists” then people would be saying, “yeah, we should ban Republicans”. If I said, “it’s like banning Russians because of the war in Ukraine” there are a lot of people who’d unironically agree with that.
I know it’s not a perfect simile; there’s likely a growing number of people who believe that eco-terrorism is quickly becoming a necessity if we hope to have a chance of surviving the next 20yrs. However, there are a still a lot of people who’d tell you that blowing up an oil rig or assassinating the CEO of BP is too extreme.
Same goes for EVERYTHING. The civilised world banned guns for less. USA still have cock fighting and bullriding. Like wtf. Of course responsible owners can handle a dog of that breed. Problem is those fanged weapons attract shitty people.
Cockfighting is illegal in every state in the USA.
Goddamn homophobes smh
En garde! 8==D
That’s very unamerican. You have liquor store drive in but cock fighting is too much? What about dog fighting?
Are you fucking retarded?
That’s not very nice. You must be a republican cunt. Up in arms for everything expect the world and morals.
So that’s a “yes” then.
I take it you have a fanged weapon.
I’m kind of surpised these pests weren’t banned in the UK, yet. The usually love banning stuff.
You seem like a pest, let’s ban you.
Bengal cats ought to be banned too. They’re wild animals, not domesticated pets.
