- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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So…what really happened? Israel says it did a “crippling” attack on all of Iran’s air defenses and ability to make drones and missiles. Iran says it intercepted most of the attack, limiting the extent of the damage, though with some fatalities (as definitively noted in the article). I’ve heard conflicting accounts of whether Israel fired from outside Iranian airspace or whether they were doing laps around Tehran. I’ve seen multiple videos of Iran’s air defense in action, but these can be cherry-picked.
Obviously there is going to be an enormous amount of censorship, propaganda, and straight up misinformation. Good luck getting actual good info.
Can’t disagree, every nation has the right to defend itself.
Iran is correct.
Israel is destabilizing the region further with this shit.
Can we just let the leaders duke it out? 1 on 1 knife fights. Leave the people out of this shit
If only.
[T]he ministers and generals of the two countries, dressed in bathing-drawers and armed with clubs, can have it out among themselves. Whoever survives, his country wins. That would be much simpler and more just than this arrangement, where the wrong people do the fighting.
- All Quiet on the Western Front, written by a WW1 veteran
Do you just have quotes like this in a rolodex?
I loved the book, but cannot pull quotes for the life of me.
Nah, just good at vaguely remembering quotes and then googling things like “All Quiet On The Western Front generals quarrel quote”
We hear about Israel’s right to protect itself so often we almost forget that everyone has it.
Everyone, except Palestine and Lebanon
I mean right doesn’t equate to ability…
Eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye…
Except for the last guy who will still have one eye. How’s the blind guy gonna take the eye of the guy with one eye left? All that guy had to do is run away and hide behind a bush. Gandhi was wrong.
The great war is coming!
The war to end all wars!
So great that there will not be a need for another. (this time for sure)
How the hell a war is to end war.
“The war to end war” (also “The war to end all wars”;[1] originally from the 1914 book The War That Will End War by H. G. Wells) is a term for the First World War of 1914–1918. Originally an idealistic slogan, it is now mainly used sardonically,[2] since not only was the First World War not history’s final war, but its aftermath also indirectly contributed to the outbreak of the even more devastating Second World War.
Can’t have wars when we’re all dying of nuclear fallout and/or nuclear explosion
There will come soft rains and the smell of the ground, And swallows circling with their shimmering sound; And frogs in the pools singing at night, And wild plum trees in tremulous white; Robins will wear their feathery fire, Whistling their whims on a low fence-wire; And not one will know of the war, not one will care at last when it is done. Not one would mind, neither bird nor tree, If mankind perished utterly; And Spring herself, when she woke at dawn Would scarcely know that we were gone.
I don’t think Iran had to attack Israel in first place. Hezbollah sought this when they started attacking Israel after Oct 7th.
Ignoring all the assassinations and strikes by Israel, including the unprovoked bombing of the Iranian embassy in Damascus?
Iran is supporting it’s allies like the West does
Are they really allies if they’re just an extension of yourself?
Hamas and Hezbollah only exists because of the Ethnic Cleansing and Occupation of the native population of Palestine and Lebanon respectively.
I don’t disagree, but what entities funds and guide/influence them? They aren’t organizations acting on their own, they are puppets.
This does not in any way downplay the travesties that Palestinian people have been through, only to highlight how Iran has used their influence to control one side of the conflict.
They certainly have shared interests, but to consider them ‘puppets’ ignores their own agencies. Armed resistance against Settler Colonialism will exist regardless of whether they can secure funding from Iran or not. Iran has influence as the main supplier of weapons (most of Hamas’ capabilities come from reusing bombs dropped by Israel that failed to detonate), but they do not control the agency of Hamas or Hezbollah. They have their own reasons to fight back.
On the surface - perhaps. But Iran’s regime has to keep its image of power for its domestic peace. Israel’s gov knows this and they do steps they know would elicit response from Iran in the hopes Iran would actually hit hard and the US would be dragged in official capacity. That would be dramatically destabilizing for the region. I reckon the US threatened Israel with real steps in order to get them to not hit targets that would have led to such escalation.
Since Iran is funding and arming Hezbollah and Hamas, how should Israel handle Iran?
By dismantling the apartheid, ending the occupation, getting the fuck on their side of their 1967 border, and recognizing the sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. Plus, by handing over their war criminals to the ICC and starting a Truth and Reconciliation process. Throw in paying reparations, if they really want peace.
There. Instantly, 90% of Hamas and Hezbollah support has just evaporated. Their neighbours are ready to normalize relations with them. The vast majority of world public opinion is now solidly behind them.
I’d be quite fine with most of this, all of it if by “the occupation” you mean the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. But, until peace is established there, that isn’t going to happen. The majority of Gazans support Hamas and believe they committed no atrocities on October 7th.
if by “the occupation” you mean the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank
Yes, exactly. Including the control of their borders of course.
until peace is established there, that isn’t going to happen
That’s entirely the wrong framing. Without these things happening, whatever it is that you think will be established, it won’t be “peace”, is is only a return to the oppressive status quo ante. It’s a cliché but in this conflict, quite literally “no justice, no peace”. My laundry list above is not a desirable outcome after some imaginary unjust “peace”. It is the precondition for peace. Without dismantling the apartheid, the occupation, etc, you’ll only have a temporary lull in the brutality and they go again.
Stop making an enemy of all their neighbors with their apartheid/genocide project, would be a good start.
With the number of rockets Hamas and Hezbollah has launched into Israel during “peacetime” while being supplied by Iran, they’re doing a great job of staying enemies.
Did you know that the Gazan bomb disposal teams are some of the most skilled in the world? The reason for this is so they can disarm and disassemble unexploded Israeli bombs so that the explosives can be repurposed and fired back. So a surprisingly large portion of the explosives that Hamas used were supplied by Israel via their long-term sporadic bombing of Gaza and anything resembling major infrastructure.
Impressive feat. But Iran is still aiding and abetting Hamas’s military campaign against Israel.
Good job putting peacetime in quotes, because during that “peacetime” Israel was airstriking Gaza and blockading it. These are straight up acts of war and justify and demand retaliation. Also Hezbollah didn’t launch rockets on Israel before October 7th.
Lol, not being an Israel apologist here, but Hezbollah has been launching rockets at Israel since they were formed.
Israel and Lebanon have a long, blood-soaked history. And the claim that Hezbollah didn’t launch rockets before October 7th is false.
Getting the hell out of all 67 occupied land
Dislocating over 9 million people is no small feat. Where would they go? Or should they just lay down and die?
They said leave all 1967 occupied areas.
You responded with the entire population of Israel.
And I later asked how this will appease all these other actors that just want to wipe Israel off the map. How will that happen?
They don’t have to go anywhere. They just don’t get a religious ethnostate any more. Let Palestine be a free democracy and they are welcome to live in a free society, no apartheid.
Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas want to kill them all, though.
Read again I said the land colonized after 67 so the israelis aren’t moving anywhere
Oh, you mean this? If they’re such filthy colonizers, how is that going to change the situation enough to stop the violence?
to be fair, it’s much easier if you just annex and slaughter the fucking browns who are there
Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations, and Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. Do you want to go to bat for them?
you straight up have not been paying any attention
No lies detected.
Godspeed.
To repeat immortal words of the sage
PiercePiers Morgan, “what should the Iranian government do?”.They could try not constantly funding and training groups commiting terrorist acts.
Absolutely. And the Israelis should dismantle the apartheid, end the occupation, get the fuck on their side of their 1967 border, and recognize the sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. Plus, they should hand over their war criminals to the ICC and start a Truth and Reconciliation process. Throw in paying reparations, because why the fuck not.
Somehow I don’t think though that
PiercePiers Morgan would accept that as a valid answer when he was asking “what should the Israeli government do”. Do you? Because if you do, I will also accept your answer about the terrorist groups. 100%.I lost my shit when he interviewed Lowkey for the second time, and Lowkey asked him if he condemned Rupert Murdoch because he publicly funds illegal Israeli settlers, providing evidence to support his claim. All the life drained from his face, and he immediately ended the interview.
I’m up voting both of you and I’m sad about it
Isn’t his name piers? I feel like we should be making fun of him for that alone. Like who tf names their kid piers?
The British. Apparently.
Hey don’t be lumping us brits in with this twatbollocks!
Or as they’re known to the rest of the world, subhumans :p
Pierce Morgan
Piers Stefan Pughe-Morgan actually, holy shit
“Piers Pussy-pooped WitSilver Spoon”
Pussy-pooped is definitely my word of the day now. Appreciate you spreading the good word.
I wonder how long these two will keep attacking each other in the name of their right to defend themselves. They should attack at the same time so both can say it was retaliation for the another’s simultaneous attack, it’s a perfect plan, both can say they got the last word and stop. Waiting for my Nobel peace prize.
It’s unlikely they’ll attack before the election, if they do. They know every escalation is another vote for Trump, and even Iran doesnt want Trump in power. My guess is they’re going to see who wins and what comes out of it before making any decisions.
This analysis ignores the internal motivations for foreign policy.
How so?
Iran has it’s own internal politics and factions it needs to appease.
This is true of most countries too.
The US invasion of Iraq had far more to do with internal politics than it did with any actions of Saddam.
The current elected leader of Iran was actually the concillatory to the west candidate, elected when tensions were not quite as high.
Now that tensions are high, he has to prove he’s not too weak to his own constituency, as the Persian people come together under what they consider to be an unjust attack.
Again, this is true in general for most countries. Foreign policy is driven far more by domestic politics then most people consider.
Their display of strength was displayed during th Oct 1 attacks. I’m not saying a follow up attack by Iran is unlikely. I’m saying the plitical situation in America currently, and whatever it is after Nov 5th, will be a big factor in what they decide to do.
Their Oct 1 attacks were in response to the assassination of Nasrallah, in combination with a response to the assassination of a visiting diplomat in Tehran from a separate attack from Israel.
Iran agreed not to respond to the assassination because the US promised that if Iran didn’t respond, the US would secure a peace deal for Gaza.
The fact that they delivered and the US didn’t is well known to the Persian people, even if it isn’t here. And, the lack of response was considered internally there as encouraging Israeli aggression.
The whole ‘nothing is more important than the US election’ is far less accurate than you think it is.
Iran doesn’t want Trump in power
Why not, would you say?
Trump is an even bigger Zionist supporter than Biden, which is pretty impressive considering how much support Biden gives them.
On top of that, he also did a lot of bad things towards Iran when he was president like sabotaging a deal Obama setup meant to ensure Iran has no nukes in favor of less sanctions and better relations. He also assassinated their top general Soleimani.
And he’s unhinged so you can’t make strategic moves against him. He might just decide to do some over-the-top bullshit.
Iran is an Ally to Russia. Who fills Trump’s pockets easier, Israel or Russia.
Iran can be an ally with Russia and not want Trump. Both can be true,.
I agree.
What were soldiers doing in hospitals and schools? It’s almost like they wanted to get themselves blown up!
Oh, my bad. Wrong place. I got it confused with this one:
Or maybe it was this one:
Israel strike on Gaza school-turned-shelter kills 17, hospital says
Damn, maybe it was this one:
Israeli attack closes last functioning hospital in north Gaza
Found it! I was thinking of this one:
Israeli shelling of Gaza school kills at least 22
Well, it’s at least one of those.
What Iranian hospitals or schools did Israel hit?
Based on intelligence, IAF aircraft struck missile manufacturing facilities used to produce the missiles that Iran fired at the State of Israel over the last year. These missiles posed a direct and immediate threat to the citizens of the State of Israel. Simultaneously, the IDF struck surface-to-air missile arrays and additional Iranian aerial capabilities, that were intended to restrict Israel’s aerial freedom of operation in Iran. Source
Exactly. I guess the missile accuracy varies depending on the direction launched.
So all of article mention that the claims comes from the most immoral army in the world
Damn straight.
Bruh
“Alright, Israel has been a thorn in our side for too long! Launch the missiles!”
“Yes sir! Where shall we strike?”
“The outskirts of their cities in unpopulated, barren land. They need to know to fear us.”
“But sir, what if this merely causes them to accept that we are only a potential threat through our missiles and, given the absence of damage from our previous attack, they feel emboldened and destroy our manufacturing sites, silos, and launch pads.”
“Impossible. Strike their wastelands.”
Who could have seen this coming?
Edit: am I really the only one that saw this coming? Didn’t realize Hellen Keller had so many accounts.
Iran was playing by Western rules, drop rockets on areas not likely to have casualties or be strategic. It’s supposed to be a de-escalation. They didn’t account for Israel clearly wanting to escalate this war into another regional conflict of them against the entire middle east.
I mean… it’s Netanyahu at the reins. To be honest, I’m not even sure whether he likes Israelis or dislikes Palestinians, he might just be a violence enthusiast bringing his hobby to work with him
When it comes to Israel this is a naive take. Hatred for Palestinians and other Arabs (especially those “intruding” upon their divinely promised lands) permeates all layers of Israeli society. You could get any Israeli politician (even the “leftist” ones) to rule and they’d do similar things, with maybe more or less effort into ceasefire negotiations.
Their divinely promised lands that they never had before 1940. Just reminding everyone that Western powers gave international Jews land that was already occupied, based on a book of fairy tales from the Bronze Age. We created this problem.
Please do keep in mind that Zionists and Jews are not synonyms. Jews have been opposing Zionism since its inception and keep doing so in large numbers. See also:
Our Approach to Zionism - JVP - Jewish Voice for Peace
Jewish Voice for Peace is guided by a vision of justice, equality and freedom for all people. We unequivocally oppose Zionism because it is counter to those ideals.
Well, I didn’t mean to be taken literally. Netanyahu understands espionage and murder and is supreme executor of all affairs. Expecting anything else from his Israel is just silly. Frankly, I just want to know whether Iran will make the next decade a nightmare for me with their response. That one is up in the air.
I wasn’t taking you literally, but now that I reread the comment chain I did misunderstand you. Nevermind.
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